I think so.
Or maybe it was a Spiro wound with the wrong silk.
I once got a Spiro E that sounded like a Belcanto and got a replacement.
Maybe you got the other end of the swap?
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Double Bass Evah Pirazzi VS Belcanto
- Thread starter Prescott33
- Start date
I think so.
Or maybe it was a Spiro wound with the wrong silk.
I once got a Spiro E that sounded like a Belcanto and got a replacement.
Maybe you got the other end of the swap?
Thanks guys. I'll look into that.So, I did. Went back to the shop where I bought the strings. Played on some Belcantos and then some Spiros. My E string sounds just like a Spiro! So you're right Francois, I got a Spiro E with orange silk. The shop gave me a Belcanto E and what do you know.... the timbre matches!
Thanks!
I've spent a year or so with both sets, and found the Bel Cantos to be an excellent set for the bow on my big orchestral bass, and the EP's to be a fantastic set for jazz pizz. I would honestly describe neither as a great "hybrid" set with either of my basses. The BC's are a little funky (stiff) for jazz pizz, and the EP's are a little funky with the bow- they require a lot of weight, are slow to start, and are prone to scratching, IMHO. YMMV.
Just a quick word about the EP's- they are for my money the best jazz string ever made. People compliment my tone constantly. Folks think they're gut on my old Kay, and last year I played a set for a huge room with a couple hundred people and forgot to turn my amp on... and didn't notice.
In fact, with this setup I'm doing about 50% of my work with either no amp or just a mic. One caveat- due to the tension, they respond poorly with high action, but you *don't need high action* to make these strings bark. My 2 cents.
Just a quick word about the EP's- they are for my money the best jazz string ever made. People compliment my tone constantly. Folks think they're gut on my old Kay, and last year I played a set for a huge room with a couple hundred people and forgot to turn my amp on... and didn't notice.
In fact, with this setup I'm doing about 50% of my work with either no amp or just a mic. One caveat- due to the tension, they respond poorly with high action, but you *don't need high action* to make these strings bark. My 2 cents.
I want to revive this old zombie thread..
I have a large orchestra bass, 42" string length. It had evah pirazzi on it because I play a lot of jazz, but intend this bass for orchestra use. I recently switched to bel canto on this particular bass.
for me, the bel canto strings are significantly louder. When i laid the bass down to go grab something across the room, i saw my wife in the next room literally covering her ears it was so loud. that never happened with the evahs...
bel canto's really don't have much volume for pizz/actual jazz playing. that being said, if your an orchestra person and your going to swing one tune during a lesson with a student or something, i suppose the bass won't explode if you did it with bel canto - but i cant imagine an actual jazz player using them "for real."
the bow response on bel canto is "better" but more than i would call it better, i'd call it really different, from evah pirazzi. both can be used for orchestra work no problem. for jazz playing evah is a top choice regardless of arco needs.
anyway, for my orchestra bass, pending i get used to the bow response, bel canto for me- the deep powerful fundamental and noticeable volume increase are welcome. If i did not own a separate bass to play jazz on, i would probably live with evahs.
I have a large orchestra bass, 42" string length. It had evah pirazzi on it because I play a lot of jazz, but intend this bass for orchestra use. I recently switched to bel canto on this particular bass.
for me, the bel canto strings are significantly louder. When i laid the bass down to go grab something across the room, i saw my wife in the next room literally covering her ears it was so loud. that never happened with the evahs...
bel canto's really don't have much volume for pizz/actual jazz playing. that being said, if your an orchestra person and your going to swing one tune during a lesson with a student or something, i suppose the bass won't explode if you did it with bel canto - but i cant imagine an actual jazz player using them "for real."
the bow response on bel canto is "better" but more than i would call it better, i'd call it really different, from evah pirazzi. both can be used for orchestra work no problem. for jazz playing evah is a top choice regardless of arco needs.
anyway, for my orchestra bass, pending i get used to the bow response, bel canto for me- the deep powerful fundamental and noticeable volume increase are welcome. If i did not own a separate bass to play jazz on, i would probably live with evahs.
I have Evah Weichs on my bass now, but I had Belcantos before and they were far better for arco. The Evahs are not as great for jazz as y’all claim...Spiros or Obligatos have more growl and are better. I’m strongly considering using a Belcanto D and G over a Spiro E and A on my next string change. Has anyone tried this? Does it work?
I believe Marcos Machado is using this combination. I'm considering it for my 39" 3/4 Solo Pollmann which is usually used in Hybrid leaning to Jazz sorts of scenarios. I'm just worried to lose the pizz qualities that so many here are saying that EP has as opposed to BC.
I hate the feel of belcantos pizz. Some people like them but I find the note and sustain to be too short and that causes me to try to fight the sustain out of the string.
Good point about the sustain. I guess I'll have to just try and see. I get the sense that I can work the pizz in my sleep in comparison to working the bow which is my weaker technique and so I guess I'm leaning towards making life easier on the bow even if it means a little more effort on the pizz side.
Totally get that. if i may add one more thought, I know a lot of people like Flex Deluxe as like a 70% arco 30% pizz string.
Have been using Spiro weich EA with Belcanto DG and it's been working for the summer. Done a couple chamber orchestra gigs and few reh and a recording session with similar orchestra and have been satisfied so far. They are present and blend in section.
I tried Belcanto's for predominantly jazz pizz playing a couple years ago and actually liked the sound I got with them. However, I found the E to be a little weak so you may consider trying a Spirocore E string instead. I only had the Belcanto's on my bass for a couple months but a friend of mine, who's strictly an orchestral player, doesn't think they have a very long lifespan. Something like 2-3 months.
At this point I think I'm going to start by locating a Permanent A (Solo B actually) to match the C Extension E that I already have on the bass; then for D/G it's anyone's guess, but I'm down to Kaplan Solo, Passione Solo, or Oliv. After running the Tension Calculator several times and referencing that against what I currently have I think one of these will be my best option. If the Permanents don't scream "hell yeah" on the E/A then I'll try the Spiro as so many of you, my current professor included, have suggested. Thanks all for the insights for my chapter of this thread. Long Live Talkbass.
spirocore Extended C, spiro solo A/B, permanent D and G/A is edgars setup
Thanks Sam.
Edgar makes that set up scream for sure, especially with the bow, and I get the sense he'd do that on pretty much any set of strings. That being said, I'm not sure that what I've heard of his pizz tone over the years (and that is a LOT) it's not what I'd be going for. Now...I'm not sure if that difference is because of the higher tension tuned up the whole step? Or because of the permanents on top (which I've never experimented with personally)??? Maybe even his technique isn't quite the same approach pizz as a more straight ahead jazz player and that is the difference? Lots of variables.
Edgar makes that set up scream for sure, especially with the bow, and I get the sense he'd do that on pretty much any set of strings. That being said, I'm not sure that what I've heard of his pizz tone over the years (and that is a LOT) it's not what I'd be going for. Now...I'm not sure if that difference is because of the higher tension tuned up the whole step? Or because of the permanents on top (which I've never experimented with personally)??? Maybe even his technique isn't quite the same approach pizz as a more straight ahead jazz player and that is the difference? Lots of variables.
totally. so you have a C extension and you're trying to use tuned down solo strings for the ADG?
Yes that’s correct. I know it sounds odd that the Extended E permanent Orchestra should feel ok at 29+ kp yet the current Evah Medium at 28 kp on the A feels a bit too tight and pretty wolfy with the bow. But I’ve also noticed that I like a lower tension as the string pitches go up...it’s one of the reasons I’m second guessing trying the Oliv G since it’s a jump up in tension from pretty much anyone’s solo E tuned to D.
well evah meidum is a super stiff string, most people consider it closer to a heavy string than a medium. if you're ok with the sound the obvious choice to me is try evah light ADG. I know 2nd chair in the LPO used Perminant E/C and evah lights on the rest for a long time.
All very interesting. Good to know that the Evah Medium A has the same rep from other players that I'm experiencing before hearing their take.
Overall though this bass is really high tension because of that string scale....so where the lights may have worked perfectly on a 40.5"-42" I'd probably need to shoot for Solo tuned down... @DoubleMIDI's spreadsheet seems to back that up based on what I'm seeing relative to the tensions. Probably a Weich A but then solo E/A (G/D).
Good to know about the high level orchestral section guys using those sorts of combos too. This Permanent may or may not continue to be the best thing once some different strings are on here....but we'll see.
Thanks Again Sam.
Overall though this bass is really high tension because of that string scale....so where the lights may have worked perfectly on a 40.5"-42" I'd probably need to shoot for Solo tuned down... @DoubleMIDI's spreadsheet seems to back that up based on what I'm seeing relative to the tensions. Probably a Weich A but then solo E/A (G/D).
Good to know about the high level orchestral section guys using those sorts of combos too. This Permanent may or may not continue to be the best thing once some different strings are on here....but we'll see.
Thanks Again Sam.
confused as why the shorter scale will make higher tension. if anything the other way around. I'd argue my 43.5 inch scale bass will have more tension than your shorter scale length...
but all this said, gotta try them on your own bass to see.
