I ran it into both halfs for a total of 800 watts but I figured I would run it through a cab with a little more power. I'm not sure if gallien krueger rates thir cabs honestly, but since I have two gk cabs rated at 400 watts and one 810 at 800 watts (with two inputs making it like two cabs each rated at 400 watts), I figured they were similar in power. The 810 I have access to is only a few year old.
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Every Amp Has Too Much Overdrive At Loud Volume
- Thread starter Scrappersa
- Start date
gallien krueger uses thermal ratings of the raw speakers to arrive at power handling specs. there has been a big discussion about power handling specs and whether using thermal ratings is honest or not. i believe it's not. it may not be technically lying, but there's no way in hell you could put anywhere close to 800w into a typical 410 without making it sound like it'll explode. 400w is a lot closer to reality.
so yes, i believe it's a dishonest practice that should be done away with. trouble is, big numbers sell, especially to guys like you who are just learning about all this stuff and haven't quite got it figured out, so they feel there's no incentive for them to tell you the truth about what you'll really be able to put into them. ampeg, however, sells tons of their cabs and uses numbers that are a lot closer to what you can expect in the real world, so i totally don't buy that excuse.
so yes, i believe it's a dishonest practice that should be done away with. trouble is, big numbers sell, especially to guys like you who are just learning about all this stuff and haven't quite got it figured out, so they feel there's no incentive for them to tell you the truth about what you'll really be able to put into them. ampeg, however, sells tons of their cabs and uses numbers that are a lot closer to what you can expect in the real world, so i totally don't buy that excuse.
Thanks a lot for clarifying. I am still trying to understand everything but you have helped me learn a ton.
Not sure if you mentioned it previously... What is the impedance of the cabinets that you are using? The PLX1202 doesn't put out a lot of power (200 W) into 8 ohms in stereo mode. It does produce a healthy 1200 W into 4 ohms bridged. So, if both of your cabinets are 8 ohms, you'll probably want to run bridged for the most power/headroom. 400 W (200 W x 2) wouldn't be much of an improvement, while 1200 W should make a definitely noticeable improvement in clean volume.
if you don't blow up your cab first, that is. honest real world power handling specs would help a lot with that, i do believe
... honest real world power handling specs would help a lot with that, i do believe
Yes indeed... they would! I'm all for honest speaker specifications/ratings.
However, if the OP goes from 300 W from a tube SVT to 400 W from a solid state amp, he might not notice a significant increase in usable volume, because he was already running his SVT into clipping and that same scenario (pushing into clipping) is not going to sound good at all with the solid state amp. At least the SVT distorts "gracefully". On the other hand, if he's got 1200 W of clean power to play with, he should be able to get more clean volume, provided he listens for the telltale signs of speaker overexcursion.
absolutely. unfortunately, so many bass players have so little control over themselves that i hesitate to recommend that to any but the most experienced. takes a lot of self control to keep that from happening.
and that's why he should just get a LOT more speakers, so he doesn't have to worry about that. a 4X10 at 800 watts is 200 watts a speaker, 2 8X10s at 800 watts is 50 watts a speaker.
I'm going to test out my poweramp this weekend. Can I use both of my cabs with a y cable in bridged mono mode on the qsc plx1202? They're both 8 ohms.
Yes. Just be mindful of not overdriving the speakers. 1200 W is a sizable chunk of power. Listen for the signs of overexcursion.
You might also want to look for an "AMPEG SVT II-P" Preamp as it is the pre in your head and falls between the cl and pro pres in tone. Sometimes described as clean, warm and killer!! Let us know how things go this weekend with the QSC and the SVT 2 pre through your 4x10 and 1x15. I hope you end up happy with your tone.
As Jimmy is currently mad about, speakers in real world will fart out and not get any louder no matter how many additional watts are pumped into them at a certain point that is a lot lower than many drivers thermal limits. He wants realistic wattage specs. On the plus side though, you will know when you are pumping too many watts into your cabs if you listen to your speakers, it is called farting out for a reason, you can hear the cones flapping it kinda sounds like distortion. Let us know if this is happening as it is a totally different thing than overdriving your power tubes in your all tube head. Have a good weekend! Cheers.
As Jimmy is currently mad about, speakers in real world will fart out and not get any louder no matter how many additional watts are pumped into them at a certain point that is a lot lower than many drivers thermal limits. He wants realistic wattage specs. On the plus side though, you will know when you are pumping too many watts into your cabs if you listen to your speakers, it is called farting out for a reason, you can hear the cones flapping it kinda sounds like distortion. Let us know if this is happening as it is a totally different thing than overdriving your power tubes in your all tube head. Have a good weekend! Cheers.
I tried out the power amp today and it worked almost perfectly! I was really hesitant to use my SVT-2 as the preamp so instead, I tried running the send output (FXs loop) from my GK Backline 300 into my QSC PLX1202. It sounded almost exactly how I wanted it to sound. I am so excited!
The bad: There definitely was not 1200 watts coming out of the head in bridged mono mode. It was more like 250 watts. I'm not sure why this was happening. I need it a little bit louder louder. Running my GK into the power amp was actually a little quieter than running my GK alone but it was MUCH more clear. No comparison. There is no way that it is running at 1200 watts. It wasn't even close to loud enough until I had it turned all the way up.
So, I have a couple of ideas as to why it's not running at a loud volume. Maybe somebody can help.
1. Either the GKs FX loop isn't supposed to work like that and it's not giving the power amp enough power.
2. I was thinking that my speakon cable isn't wired the correct way. I bought this brand [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] except it has a little cable at the other end that I can connect my 1/4" speaker cable (y cable into my two GK cabs. I also tried running it into an 810e but it was just as quiet). I read that the speakon cable needs to wired a certain way.
3. The PLX1202 I bought could be broken in some way. I bought it used from GC for cheap. If that's the case, I'll just return it and try out a new one.
4. I'm pretty sure that I had all of the settings correct on the back of PLX1202 for bridged mono mode but I could have done something wrong. Maybe I missed something. I tried moving all ten of the little switch things to the right. I tried leaving the two parallel ones to the left and the right. There wasn't a difference. But I definitely turned bridged mono mode on.
Any other ideas?
The bad: There definitely was not 1200 watts coming out of the head in bridged mono mode. It was more like 250 watts. I'm not sure why this was happening. I need it a little bit louder louder. Running my GK into the power amp was actually a little quieter than running my GK alone but it was MUCH more clear. No comparison. There is no way that it is running at 1200 watts. It wasn't even close to loud enough until I had it turned all the way up.
So, I have a couple of ideas as to why it's not running at a loud volume. Maybe somebody can help.
1. Either the GKs FX loop isn't supposed to work like that and it's not giving the power amp enough power.
2. I was thinking that my speakon cable isn't wired the correct way. I bought this brand [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] except it has a little cable at the other end that I can connect my 1/4" speaker cable (y cable into my two GK cabs. I also tried running it into an 810e but it was just as quiet). I read that the speakon cable needs to wired a certain way.
3. The PLX1202 I bought could be broken in some way. I bought it used from GC for cheap. If that's the case, I'll just return it and try out a new one.
4. I'm pretty sure that I had all of the settings correct on the back of PLX1202 for bridged mono mode but I could have done something wrong. Maybe I missed something. I tried moving all ten of the little switch things to the right. I tried leaving the two parallel ones to the left and the right. There wasn't a difference. But I definitely turned bridged mono mode on.
Any other ideas?
I am pretty sure the speakon cable needs to be wired differently for full wattage output on that specific QSC amp. Otherwise, it will not sound that loud - which is what you experienced.
I'm late on this as I was out for xmas but here's a few more cents...
OK first, as others have pointed out you have probably the most aggressively-voiced SVT there is. Not having the separate pre/master volume and instead just a "volume" knob, what you're probably altering with that knob is the input gain. So it's like having the master dimed and then adding gain to reach the appropriate volume. Used to have one, still wish I did.
I use my Ampeg V4BH(100W) similar in that I crank the master and bring up the gain to volume.
Doing so releases the mojo in those power tubes! And that's why folks rant about the SVT II non-pro. Prolly there's some other details there too...
So anyway the point is that if you loved the sound of the SVT at a lower volume, it was still probably because of the power tube clipping. You can't substitute that with an SVT tube preamp. Not saying it won't sound good - just sayin' the mojo will be left behind.
Now, others scoffed at your mention of "a PA for my bass amp". I would say, "not so fast".
I've thought of doing that exact thing. If you have a lower wattage amp that has the tone you love (like Jimmy's B15N) -- what's stopping you from micing your favorite cab, using a mini-mixer, clean power amp, and another cab, and adding the additional volume that you need?
Not really alot of difference between that and the band having a PA except it becomes part of your rig. Make it simpler, and just use a powered Mackie speaker or something.
I'm sure there are others doing this.
I've been thinking about doing the same with my V4BH. I'm loving the tone at the sweet spot, but with a hard-hitting drummer I have to push it past the sweet spot sometimes.
Deep Thoughts,
Colonel Monk
PS and if the Mojo is not your concern? I had the Mesa MP600, a very warm sounding and STUPID LOUD amp. I swear, at 600W no drummers/guitards can trump you. Loudest rig I ever had.
OK first, as others have pointed out you have probably the most aggressively-voiced SVT there is. Not having the separate pre/master volume and instead just a "volume" knob, what you're probably altering with that knob is the input gain. So it's like having the master dimed and then adding gain to reach the appropriate volume. Used to have one, still wish I did.
I use my Ampeg V4BH(100W) similar in that I crank the master and bring up the gain to volume.
Doing so releases the mojo in those power tubes! And that's why folks rant about the SVT II non-pro. Prolly there's some other details there too...
So anyway the point is that if you loved the sound of the SVT at a lower volume, it was still probably because of the power tube clipping. You can't substitute that with an SVT tube preamp. Not saying it won't sound good - just sayin' the mojo will be left behind.
Now, others scoffed at your mention of "a PA for my bass amp". I would say, "not so fast".
I've thought of doing that exact thing. If you have a lower wattage amp that has the tone you love (like Jimmy's B15N) -- what's stopping you from micing your favorite cab, using a mini-mixer, clean power amp, and another cab, and adding the additional volume that you need?
Not really alot of difference between that and the band having a PA except it becomes part of your rig. Make it simpler, and just use a powered Mackie speaker or something.
I'm sure there are others doing this.
I've been thinking about doing the same with my V4BH. I'm loving the tone at the sweet spot, but with a hard-hitting drummer I have to push it past the sweet spot sometimes.
Deep Thoughts,
Colonel Monk
PS and if the Mojo is not your concern? I had the Mesa MP600, a very warm sounding and STUPID LOUD amp. I swear, at 600W no drummers/guitards can trump you. Loudest rig I ever had.
