The cynic in me can't help but think the sound guy will give you a big thumbs up and you'll be happy, while the cable from your mic will be lying on the floor next to his foot, unplugged.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
everything is done wrong anymore
- Thread starter lavaxtris
- Start date
The cynic in me can't help but think the sound guy will give you a big thumbs up and you'll be happy, while the cable from your mic will be lying on the floor next to his foot, unplugged.
Hi.
Nah, some of the lil' suckers have become pretty clever, thanks to the internet.
You usually have to plug 'em in but since they, or their friends sneaking around the booth can't really tell a sub-group from a sub-marine, just route their signal into a unused subgroup and call it a day.
In the end, that way everybody wins anyway
.
Regards
Sam
Nah, some of the lil' suckers have become pretty clever, thanks to the internet.
You usually have to plug 'em in but since they, or their friends sneaking around the booth can't really tell a sub-group from a sub-marine, just route their signal into a unused subgroup and call it a day.
In the end, that way everybody wins anyway
.Regards
Sam
Some random thoughts ...
Since my bass amp/cab is full range a DI from the amp or the pedalboard works well, don't see the need for miking the cabinet or using a cab simulator. It would also be difficult since there are four different sized drivers to choose from.
As I'm handling our own PA when we use that, I think I have to defend the sound guys a little ... they of course have a lot more on their plate than only the bass, and I would think they have a lot of stories about PITA people making more or less reasonable demands when there's little time for setup.
Since you usually are offered only one XLR cable, would a solution be that you take charge of the sound yourself using your own mic, DI and small mixer, and go from there to the main PA?
.
Since my bass amp/cab is full range a DI from the amp or the pedalboard works well, don't see the need for miking the cabinet or using a cab simulator. It would also be difficult since there are four different sized drivers to choose from.
As I'm handling our own PA when we use that, I think I have to defend the sound guys a little ... they of course have a lot more on their plate than only the bass, and I would think they have a lot of stories about PITA people making more or less reasonable demands when there's little time for setup.
Since you usually are offered only one XLR cable, would a solution be that you take charge of the sound yourself using your own mic, DI and small mixer, and go from there to the main PA?
.
Hi.
You wouldn't even imagine what the bands demand at the very last moment. I didn't mix very long, but the stories are quite unbelievable anyway
.
A recipie for a disaster IME.
Especially when dealing with an unknown sound engineer.
A lot of keyboard players do, or want to use sub-mixers with their half a dozen different synths and their Leslies, and most of the time their balance is so way off that the FOH (and the monitor) person has to keep their fingers on the KBD sliders all the time just to make the outcome even half decent.
Back in the day it did make some sense to use sub-mixers, but today we have ample amount of channels on both the snakes and on the mixers.
If we go digital, we don't even need to reserve channels solely for some individual act (=the headliner).
Regards
Sam
You wouldn't even imagine what the bands demand at the very last moment. I didn't mix very long, but the stories are quite unbelievable anyway
.A recipie for a disaster IME.
Especially when dealing with an unknown sound engineer.
A lot of keyboard players do, or want to use sub-mixers with their half a dozen different synths and their Leslies, and most of the time their balance is so way off that the FOH (and the monitor) person has to keep their fingers on the KBD sliders all the time just to make the outcome even half decent.
Back in the day it did make some sense to use sub-mixers, but today we have ample amount of channels on both the snakes and on the mixers.
If we go digital, we don't even need to reserve channels solely for some individual act (=the headliner).
Regards
Sam
Yeah, I know, we have that problem with only two keyboards ... but for the bass I would think you could have a set and forget mix of mic and DI, always the same mic and mic placement etc. But it's of course more gear and more that can go wrong.
Dealing with sound engineers can be tough. Especially in today's competitive world, where one of the other bands that's playing that night slips the man a C-bill for making sure they sound the best and get invited again.
Happens at a lot of Battle of the Bands, at any rate.
Happens at a lot of Battle of the Bands, at any rate.
Hi.
If only the people would really "set and forget", it actually can and does work, but leaving "a bit of headroom" on the volume pot or fiddling with the on-stage levels during the act is a norm with inexperienced bands.
Because they want to be able to boost their signal if they feel that the FOH person isn't doing his/her job.
I had a rule that if they did that once, I'd let it slide, but on the second raise on the level, either the limiter or the compressor would be so stiff that no-one would notice the level increase if they cranked their level to 11. I also told that to them in advance. Some had to try their luck anyway...
Of course, with the regular bands I mixed (monitors mainly), none of that was of any concern, they had a very professional touch and everything flowed smoothly.
~70% of them were well established national acts, so that obviously helped as well.
Those few years I did sound engineering semi-professionally, I mainly did work in a rather big place, so save for one spectacularily craptastic mixing gig there was actually very little friction between the house crew and the bands.
I guess I was lucky.
Regards
Sam
If only the people would really "set and forget", it actually can and does work, but leaving "a bit of headroom" on the volume pot or fiddling with the on-stage levels during the act is a norm with inexperienced bands.
Because they want to be able to boost their signal if they feel that the FOH person isn't doing his/her job.
I had a rule that if they did that once, I'd let it slide, but on the second raise on the level, either the limiter or the compressor would be so stiff that no-one would notice the level increase if they cranked their level to 11. I also told that to them in advance. Some had to try their luck anyway...
Of course, with the regular bands I mixed (monitors mainly), none of that was of any concern, they had a very professional touch and everything flowed smoothly.
~70% of them were well established national acts, so that obviously helped as well.
Those few years I did sound engineering semi-professionally, I mainly did work in a rather big place, so save for one spectacularily craptastic mixing gig there was actually very little friction between the house crew and the bands.
I guess I was lucky
.Regards
Sam
Well nothing is going wrong, it's just these venues really don't care that much about the band. As long as they're bringing in business, playing their set, and not breaking anything, they can care less. Sometimes I meet sound guys who care about the band and the music, but USUALLY not. Not anything new.
As far as micing your bass amp, why? It takes longer, and if the sound guy doesn't know where to put it, then you're doomed. It's a lot harder to mic a bass cab properly than a guitar cab.
But I definitely agree about the metal thing. It bugs me that 70% of the bands that I see are screamo/death metal. I wouldn't mind it if there was only a few, but it seems about 70% of all bands I see are screamo. Subsequently, the sound guys really only use one setting. It grinds my gears!! >.<
Also, don't say "better" tunes, it makes you sound a little snobby. Music=subjective
- Oct 7, 2000
- 18,619
- 38,939
- Disclosures
- Endorsing artist: Musicman basses
I think musicians who are insistant on "their" sound getting pumped into the house, are very frustrated and unhappy musicians. And for no good reason, as IME 99% of the time, it's completely out of your control.
I also wonder how and why people argue about their sound in a room, when they couldn't have a clue what it sounds like unless they're playing wireless and standing in the audience during the show.
I use my amp as a monitor, get a sound I'm happy with, and trust whoever is at the board. So much less stress to carry around at a gig.
I also wonder how and why people argue about their sound in a room, when they couldn't have a clue what it sounds like unless they're playing wireless and standing in the audience during the show.
I use my amp as a monitor, get a sound I'm happy with, and trust whoever is at the board. So much less stress to carry around at a gig.
Ok, I'll give you what I actually have to say on this. Forgive rant/stupidity, or whatever seems dumb. In no particular order:
1. No amp for bass, only DI is all too true and we have a generation of players and sound people that know nothing else. The window is closing or closed.
2. Most sound guys don't get the job done. Too much this or that, and by far. It's so frustrating.
3. Get the keys player to play nothing below middle C with the left hand, and to quit playing full chords (even the root above middle C). Instructions like this make everyone look at you like you're crazy. Get the kick eq'd to not blot out the bass. That instruction as well is crazy-talk to most. Everyone just rails against it, instead of seeing the point.
4. For recording, how about mic'ing 2ft above the sound guy's head, rather than some second computer mix that makes him sound competent?
EARS are the most important tool, and maybe only tool, for the guy on the board - as was stated above?
YEAH.
Gosh. This is painful. You guys actually got me started.
1. No amp for bass, only DI is all too true and we have a generation of players and sound people that know nothing else. The window is closing or closed.
2. Most sound guys don't get the job done. Too much this or that, and by far. It's so frustrating.
3. Get the keys player to play nothing below middle C with the left hand, and to quit playing full chords (even the root above middle C). Instructions like this make everyone look at you like you're crazy. Get the kick eq'd to not blot out the bass. That instruction as well is crazy-talk to most. Everyone just rails against it, instead of seeing the point.
4. For recording, how about mic'ing 2ft above the sound guy's head, rather than some second computer mix that makes him sound competent?
EARS are the most important tool, and maybe only tool, for the guy on the board - as was stated above?
YEAH.
Gosh. This is painful. You guys actually got me started.
behringer...bugera is a behringer product. behringer DI boxes are horrible in the first place (bass amps DI out aside).
yeah im laying on the behringer hate a little here, but the sound/tone of their DI's vs a radial, or BSS, is night and day. not to mention a severe quailty difference, that also reflects in the price tag.
i would suggest to you thought that if you like your sound from the sansamp then always take it with you wherever you go. (i do)
personally i prefer to be DI'd and not mic'd. i find that i geta clearer and punchier sound from it. the only reason i mic my cab is if im looking for a little warmer tone, or to even it out in the FOH. and the blend between the two is amazing. but certainly for live DI is certainly the way to go IMO, but i don't complain when a sound tech wants to do both.
Hi.
Nah, some of the lil' suckers have become pretty clever, thanks to the internet.
You usually have to plug 'em in but since they, or their friends sneaking around the booth can't really tell a sub-group from a sub-marine, just route their signal into a unused subgroup and call it a day.
In the end, that way everybody wins anyway
Regards
Sam
or there is always the mute button...nothing like having it in for sound check, then not using it at all after...lol
A great strategy. Blast your bandmates on stage and destroy the mix simply to prove a point. Oh, and the threat of physical violence as well.......it's.......perfect.
In many clubs the house soundman will have quite a bit of influence over what bands play (or don't play) there. Try this cute little stunt......don't look for an ask back.
I bet this has happened before to me! I will never know will I?
As was stated earlier, hire your own sound man and enjoy a good life of fantastic bass tone.
True but If your bandmates are cool with what is happening to the OP then who would want to be a part of that scene anyway. Do they even need a bass player? What is the point if you're not being heard? FWIW My entire band strives for a great stage volume and we all go through the FOH as well. Drummers kit is electronic and sounds great. We all treat each other as a team and that's how it should be. It's also very easy with the RIC because it sits so perfectly in the mix. The OP's problem is non-existent for me.A great strategy. Blast your bandmates on stage and destroy the mix simply to prove a point. Oh, and the threat of physical violence as well.......it's.......perfect.
In many clubs the house soundman will have quite a bit of influence over what bands play (or don't play) there. Try this cute little stunt......don't look for an ask back.
Real easy to tell people to bring their own soundman, much harder to do on a consistent basis. Why?
Number one, they cost money and spread already-thin budgets to their breaking point.
Second, a lot of places we play supply PA and soundman, and most don't take kindly to a band's soundman coming up and running sound.
Third, the person on bass is often not the person responsible for hiring soundmen, and in my case, many of those decisions are made way farther up the food chain than me or anyone in my band.
So you folks saying "just hire a soundman" like it's the easiest thing in the world aren't taking other often insurmountable factors into it.
Number one, they cost money and spread already-thin budgets to their breaking point.
Second, a lot of places we play supply PA and soundman, and most don't take kindly to a band's soundman coming up and running sound.
Third, the person on bass is often not the person responsible for hiring soundmen, and in my case, many of those decisions are made way farther up the food chain than me or anyone in my band.
So you folks saying "just hire a soundman" like it's the easiest thing in the world aren't taking other often insurmountable factors into it.
