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Expensive HEAD affordable CABINET or expensive BIG COMBO?
- Thread starter 10emmanuel
- Start date
I need to respectfully disagree with that individual's advice-- I would advise the opposite: Get an affordable, used head from a reputable & reliable manufacturer; and get the best cabinet you can *almost* afford. The cabinet will do more for your sound than the head-- the cabinet is what translates electrical signals into actual sound, after all...
I voted decent head + affordable cab
In my gigs the cab is just a stage monitor, with the head DI going FOH
SO I don't need a cab that is venue-filling loud, which lets me go with a 112
but the number of respected responders who prioritize the cab is interesting
on reflection my "affordable cabs" have been Bergantino and fEarful,
so I guess I have no idea what crap cab would do.
PS used Genz Benz if you can find it
In my gigs the cab is just a stage monitor, with the head DI going FOH
SO I don't need a cab that is venue-filling loud, which lets me go with a 112
but the number of respected responders who prioritize the cab is interesting
on reflection my "affordable cabs" have been Bergantino and fEarful,
so I guess I have no idea what crap cab would do.
PS used Genz Benz if you can find it
I’d recommend equal consideration to both the head and cab. Buy used for better prices. Buy the “old heavy amp/cab” for good gear at very affordable prices. An old Mesa cab would sound great without breaking the bank. SWR another good pick. I gigged a GK 400RB3 head for years through various 410 cabs and had plenty of volume and great tone without spending a lot.
I've never struggled to be heard with 500 watts into 2 12" speakers or 4 10" speakers. I'd be OK with 350 watts as well with the same speakers.
If you're going to empha$ize something, make it the cab. You can get a whole lot of rig for $1500 in the used market. I see 800 watt mesa heads here all the time for $600ish. Get a good 4 ohm 212 or 410 and let the drummer worry about keeping up with YOU
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I play in a band at the moment, there is a 4x10 cab in the studio with a new style class D head. I dislike the sound, it's either boomy or thin, can't make it balance it's either mud or sounds no bottom. I'm playing a 70's j bass. The band has two marshall players both play Les Pauls. Drummer hits hard. The PA is huge, everyone sings. I took a svt 3 head over, wasn't too good, didn't sound great. Later, for kicks I took my smaller venue 80 watt Sunn, I plugged in a second cab so I could get the full 4ohms. The second cab was just sitting there and I was warned by band members it sounded bad with two cab and the classs D amp. It did sound bad, spongy and all mid-range, no bottom. The sunn sounded glorious... at about 7 vol, noon on the other two knobs. Loud as hell, harmonics ringing, grit, great lows, clean and balanced strings definition. Ever without the Low switch on , still have more lows, if I need. That's what I play now in this band the 1968 Sunn.
You could buy a small cab and put a good neo speaker in, for not too much and it will be easy to carry and have a room to expand as you go.
Personally I like old tube heads with good transformers, heavy iron. You can find them and they are affordable if you hunt and look around. They last forever.
You could buy a small cab and put a good neo speaker in, for not too much and it will be easy to carry and have a room to expand as you go.
Personally I like old tube heads with good transformers, heavy iron. You can find them and they are affordable if you hunt and look around. They last forever.
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IME GK combos are very good & pricey if available to you.
Best bang for the buck Fender Rumble 500 W 2x10 speakers holds up well in a rock band.
Mark Bass has nice combos but are pricey.
The trend I see hear in the US is small head/speaker or combo because large venues are fewer
and old guys like me are dumping their big speakers & large heads because of lack of work & small venues.
Best bang for the buck Fender Rumble 500 W 2x10 speakers holds up well in a rock band.
Mark Bass has nice combos but are pricey.
The trend I see hear in the US is small head/speaker or combo because large venues are fewer
and old guys like me are dumping their big speakers & large heads because of lack of work & small venues.
JeezyMcNuggles
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- Feb 23, 2018
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A quality 210 of single 15 sound very good. Many manufacturers to choose from. Same with class D heads.
Will that configuration keep up with a drummer and guitars is a key question.
I am a fan of having a very powerful head. 800watts into 4 ohms means you probably not clipping and have plenty of head room under most conditions. a 4 ohm cab will allow you to use the full 800 watts but very well may not support a second cabinet for many amps.... some will.
The thing is... what style of music are you playing and how loud is your band?
Speakers can only move as far as the surround will allow them to travel. That limits how much sound you are going to get out of you cabinet. The more drivers, the more cone surface area, the more sound pressure you can generate.
If are playing with musicians that are restrained enough to play music at levels that their equipment will support, a 210 or 112 and a powerful amp will be a very workable solution for most every gig you will ever play. If you are playing with a heavy band with Marshall 412 Stacks, you might need a bigger boat... and hearing protection!
BTW. Don't discount Combo Amps. There are some good ones out there. For example, The Rumble 800 is only 29lbs. That is not going to break your back. You can carry your amp and have a gig bag on your back at the same time, no problem. Class D and Neo drivers means light gear... thank you Jesus!
Will that configuration keep up with a drummer and guitars is a key question.
I am a fan of having a very powerful head. 800watts into 4 ohms means you probably not clipping and have plenty of head room under most conditions. a 4 ohm cab will allow you to use the full 800 watts but very well may not support a second cabinet for many amps.... some will.
The thing is... what style of music are you playing and how loud is your band?
Speakers can only move as far as the surround will allow them to travel. That limits how much sound you are going to get out of you cabinet. The more drivers, the more cone surface area, the more sound pressure you can generate.
If are playing with musicians that are restrained enough to play music at levels that their equipment will support, a 210 or 112 and a powerful amp will be a very workable solution for most every gig you will ever play. If you are playing with a heavy band with Marshall 412 Stacks, you might need a bigger boat... and hearing protection!
BTW. Don't discount Combo Amps. There are some good ones out there. For example, The Rumble 800 is only 29lbs. That is not going to break your back. You can carry your amp and have a gig bag on your back at the same time, no problem. Class D and Neo drivers means light gear... thank you Jesus!
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Hello,
Once you're at 100ish watts for a combo your good for like utility monitoring and practicing etc, the next step, so long as you have a reliable sans amp, is to buy a propper head. If you don't have a tech 21 svt, or a dark glass b7k , for di only gigs and backup to foh, I would recomfor, getting one of these first and a 1000 watt clean power speaker, my sans amp set up is sweet, thumping and loud, several thousand watts loud, under 2k$
The point in favor of a good head, affordable cab, which has probably been said, is that you will have a nice head, and at a later date you can upgrade the cab, at which point you'll have an excellent rig. The combo obviously is one piece, so you'd have to swap the whole thing to upgrade. That's always the advantage of components - you can upgrade just what's needed.
I have my dream rig. I play smaller type venues at it's perfect. The Phil Jones Bass cab really tightened up my sound, and the Darkglass head was the final touch. I will agree that the cab made much more difference than the head. I went from an Ampeg PF 500 and 115LF cab to a Darkglass Exponent and PJB 6x7. Monumental change, especially in the low mids and bottom end. The nice thing about a head and cab is that you can change cabs for different situations. A lot of heads, like mine, can run without a cab so you could go directly into the pa and not need a cab at all. BASS.
I'm not going to scour the entire thread to find out where the heck you actually live. If you're in the states, you could probably find an Aguilar AG700 or TH700 and a SL212 or a pair of SL112 for around that price if you look used.
IMHO the cab is the most important (and frequently neglected) part....I'd try my best to get a good 8 Ohm cab and pretty much any head that pushes enough power. The bigger the cab, the less power needed. 8 Ohm cab provides flexibility to add another cab down the road, and the volume difference between adding a 2nd cab fill be faaaaaaaar greater/ more significant than from getting a 4 Ohm cab vs 8 Ohms with the same head. I'm not a combo fan because of the decreased flexibility.
Your entire signal chain will be garbage in, garbage out. Speakers and heads all matter - however, most will sound at least ok. It might be more profitable to ask what to avoid.
I totally agree to buy used from reliable sources when you can, and I tend to trust Talkbass classifieds sellers to a much higher degree than any other sources of used gear, other than a small handful of local players I’ve bought stuff from before.
I voted separate head and cab, but the Rumble 800 is a great choice. Any of the Tonehammer heads are great. A single 12” cab may or may not be able to keep up, it depends on the cab. Two should for sure. I like 12s - I had an Avatar 112 that could keep up with a decently loud drummer, and a MarkBass CMD121P combo that surprisingly also could.
My preference though is a couple of 210s, and I wouldn’t worry too much about weight. I’m currently mostly using two Aguilar DB210s and they’re amazing, but each one is 65 Lbs - I take them to gigs with a smile on my face because they sound amazing and will be heard.
Lots of newer heads only have one speaker out - I’m using a Darkglass head that only has one. However I can run my cabs in series, so I get all 500 watts out of both cabs.
With separate cabs, I can easily swap in my Ampeg PF-800, GK 800RB, or Ampeg V9. I can also choose to take my 212 cab, or I can add a 210 to my MarkBass combo. You can likely also do this with the Rumble, but I haven’t owned one so can’t say for sure without a google search that you can do instead. Most higher wattage combos rated 500 watts or more (*not* Ashdown) allow an extension cab though and you actually need one to get the full wattage, assuming you need the full wattage.
I totally agree to buy used from reliable sources when you can, and I tend to trust Talkbass classifieds sellers to a much higher degree than any other sources of used gear, other than a small handful of local players I’ve bought stuff from before.
I voted separate head and cab, but the Rumble 800 is a great choice. Any of the Tonehammer heads are great. A single 12” cab may or may not be able to keep up, it depends on the cab. Two should for sure. I like 12s - I had an Avatar 112 that could keep up with a decently loud drummer, and a MarkBass CMD121P combo that surprisingly also could.
My preference though is a couple of 210s, and I wouldn’t worry too much about weight. I’m currently mostly using two Aguilar DB210s and they’re amazing, but each one is 65 Lbs - I take them to gigs with a smile on my face because they sound amazing and will be heard.
Lots of newer heads only have one speaker out - I’m using a Darkglass head that only has one. However I can run my cabs in series, so I get all 500 watts out of both cabs.
With separate cabs, I can easily swap in my Ampeg PF-800, GK 800RB, or Ampeg V9. I can also choose to take my 212 cab, or I can add a 210 to my MarkBass combo. You can likely also do this with the Rumble, but I haven’t owned one so can’t say for sure without a google search that you can do instead. Most higher wattage combos rated 500 watts or more (*not* Ashdown) allow an extension cab though and you actually need one to get the full wattage, assuming you need the full wattage.
This x 6.02214076×10e23!
Since AI closed up shop after the sad passing of Rick Jones I worry about getting my AI serviced. Sure I can probably still go to any reputable place... but I dearly loved working with Rick and his team for any service or repair. He was always so kind to me.
