I think “teaching” someone good time is a tough thing to do. You can take so-so time and make it better, but bad time? A drummer who, when he/she goes into a fill, you say a little prayer that he/she gets back to the one with some degree of accuracy? In my experience, drummers like this learn they’re not good drummers pretty early on.
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Experience Making Drummers Better
- Thread starter LBS-bass
- Start date
It's been my experience not just with drummers but with all musicians that unless they have the mindset of wanting to learn and get better, a person is just wasting their time trying to get someone to improve.
The top two recent ones that stand out to me are:
1) Female singer who has a tendency to sing flat. I dropped a hint to her that one of the things I do when I work on my upright bass stuff or even sometimes with my electric is that I practice with a cello drone. It's a great tool as an intonation check on URB/fretless bass as well as singing. The response I got back was " I can already sing "... ok...
2) Another one is a drummer I know who comes from the rock/jam band world. He's actually quite good at that stuff. We've been getting together maybe once a month to run through real book tunes with some others but overall the feel just isn't there. For whatever reason the whole group just isn't connected all that well.
I've dropped some suggestions about he and I meeting up for 20 minutes before hand to work on some stuff, and have also dropped a hint that for his solos it'd be cool if he could play the melody on his drums instead of just the random stuff he does. No bueno...I just don't think that level of interest is there and he doesn't want to go that deep on the stuff. I get it...A guy whose done nothing but play rock/jamband stuff for 20 years isn't going to want to go deep on the jazz stuff.
The list goes on and on, but the bottom line is that at least in my experience people tend to be pretty set in their ways. I also think a lot of it has to do with bias...People are less willing to listen to someone they consider to be their peer musically.
The drummer in so many ways defines a band so they need time groove and basically have to sound great...knowing how to get the kit tuned etc.
And thats for starters, so I have no inclination to stick with one I might meet on a Sub date.
I would probably not be keen to take other dates if the drummer didn't hit the mark.
In regular outfits, those guys dont get invited.
Its almost an unwritten rule that players either are in the right 'pool' or they aren't so in that sense, you dont come across them.
And thats for starters, so I have no inclination to stick with one I might meet on a Sub date.
I would probably not be keen to take other dates if the drummer didn't hit the mark.
In regular outfits, those guys dont get invited.
Its almost an unwritten rule that players either are in the right 'pool' or they aren't so in that sense, you dont come across them.
the thing is, we're not talking about beginners here. if they had dedication, patience and were willing to do the work, they'd already have better timing or at least an accurate idea of their own shortcomings and how theycould work around them.
most of the crappy drummers i've worked with wanted to be rock stars without the practice. this tended to play lots of showing off fills they couldn't deliver and could never come back from on time. and many didn't even know the breaks or changes in the songs - they literally couldn't be bothered to listen to the songs enough to learn that.
In many cases, yes. But some drummers have no sense of rhythm. That deficit is not limited to drummers, but the irony is hilarious.
I play in a dad rock band with some other amateurs. I tell the drummer "keep it simple! Let me figure out where your one and three are, and I'll lock in with you and we'll drive this band."
We amateurs spend a lot of time playing along to records, which only sort of prepares you to play in a band. The drummer is a good guy but I'm sure when he's at home playing along to records he's happy to play whatever comes into his head all over the kit -- that's fun. But in a band you have a part to play. Not a role, a part.
I've been playing trumpet in jazz combos for many years and that's where I learned it. And BTW: When I'm taking a solo chorus or ten as a trumpet player I listen to the bass player.
We amateurs spend a lot of time playing along to records, which only sort of prepares you to play in a band. The drummer is a good guy but I'm sure when he's at home playing along to records he's happy to play whatever comes into his head all over the kit -- that's fun. But in a band you have a part to play. Not a role, a part.
I've been playing trumpet in jazz combos for many years and that's where I learned it. And BTW: When I'm taking a solo chorus or ten as a trumpet player I listen to the bass player.
I think the rudiments are important, I mean you'd think that as a drummer you'd be focused on timing.
I had one drummer who would start a song at 140bpm and finish it at 90bpm. When I asked him why he slows down on this song he said "what do you mean? I don't slow down". I showed him a video of the gig, same response. Try working that one out.
Luckily these days the drummer in our band has well developed skills and great time and groove so it's almost like being on holiday to gig with him.
I had one drummer who would start a song at 140bpm and finish it at 90bpm. When I asked him why he slows down on this song he said "what do you mean? I don't slow down". I showed him a video of the gig, same response. Try working that one out.
Luckily these days the drummer in our band has well developed skills and great time and groove so it's almost like being on holiday to gig with him.
That may be the litmus test of whether a drummer is fixable. If he can't hear a tempo change on a video (that's really there), fire him and provide a one-way ticket to The Island of Misfit Tempokeepers.
You get pretty spoiled when you play with a good drummer and then you don't. I'll cut someone a lot of slack that tries hard and isn't a PIA, then it goes to it will either work out or it won't. At some point you have to move on if it's not working musically.
Just one point, never marry the drummer... (aggggh
)
Just one point, never marry the drummer... (aggggh
)I bought an electronic drum kit and my friend told me I missed my vocation.
There is something i intuively get on drums that many drummers do not seem to get.
Maybe it's because as a bass player I listened drums a lot and know what i like.
I noticed that when you play an instrument you don't know, you go to the basics of what the instrument is made for.
Going to this essential can make you instantly look good compared to a drummer that will be distracted from the basics by playing fast fills etcetera.
Yet I don't consider i am super good rythmically i had to work to fix myself. But i get what groove is about, i am sure of that.
I started off on drums and I am still pretty good at them.
I think if both drummers and bassists learned the other instrument, a lot of these types of problems would be solved.
This whole thread reminds me of when I was in middle management and most of my annual-review objectives boiled down to making 40 year old men and women into different people than they were.
