Double Bass Experience with upton bass?

[damonsmith]

IMO, for a beginner there MAY be heightened advantage to dealing w/ an established brand, as the beginner may lack the experience/skills to evaluate basses they are exposed to.

Or getting a teacher and doing the research it takes. It isn't terribly difficult. While there are some beginner brands that are solidly recommendable like Shen, Christopher and Upton - individual basses do vary. It is a good time to learn just how case by case double basses are out of the gate than down the road.

 

[g-dude]

No interest in engaging your opinion of Upton, but IMO, for a beginner there MAY be heightened advantage to dealing w/ an established brand, as the beginner may lack the experience/skills to evaluate basses they are exposed to.

Beginner here - been playing since January.

First bass was basically “I need something that won’t break the bank” and the place I bought it from hadn’t done anything in the way of setup. At least I got a good deal due to some finish checking.

After a few weeks of playing, I figured out that the bass was going to be a temporary situation. I basically look at it like I paid upfront rent for a rental bass (which it kind of is), and my final monthly rental rate will be determined by when/how much I sell it for to the next beginner.

When I look at the money involved in a new instrument, I wanted to be sure that I would be getting something that was going to be a quality instrument. I also needed to land on an instrument that I could “grow” into from an ability standpoint, but that I wouldn’t be scared to touch due to the cost. Also didn’t want to buy an instrument made in China.

I also wouldn’t consider myself skilled enough yet to really suss out the difference between OK/Good/Great instruments

While I’m still waiting on my bass to be delivered, the standard laminate checked all the boxes in terms of balancing what I want and need, but without getting ahead of myself. Can’t wait for it to arrive, and looking forward to the day where I can justify investing in a custom instrument that is uniquely “mine”

 

[Ed S]

I also consider myself a beginner (after a decade or so!) When do you expect delivery? Mine (hybrid Bohunk) should be somewhat soon - hopefully this month, tho I don't know exactly when.

I know I was CLUELESS re: how to try out basses when I stumbled into Jerry Fretwell's shop a decade ago. I bought an Englehardt from the factory (near my house) on his recommendation. More recently, I experienced the same thing, trying out banjos - wanting to avoid a beginner model, but being limited in my ability to compare. My wife was with me - when I narrowed it down to 2, at her recommendation I chose "the prettier one" that she wanted to see in our living room!

I bet your US will take you quite a ways. Depending on your use, you may never feel a need to replace it. When/if you wish to upgrade, I suspect you'll be able to sell it pretty quickly, or else keep it as a strong backup.

I think I recall people having commented on these forums about numbers of Uptons languishing unsold. I have not been able to locate them on-line. Could folk point them out? I think they hold their value pretty well, and resell pretty quickly. (I scrolled back thru 8 pages of Classifieds here. I think there is one active listing. The previous 3-4 sold pretty quickly.)

I'm hesitant to write this in a public forum, but I decided to. I think Eric and everyone at Upton are totally upstanding folk, who create a quality, well-priced product. My personal observation, however is that the COVID really threw them a curveball! I think their strengths are definitely in the area of workmanship and in-person service. As the build time for my bass has stretched, I've repeatedly wished they could figure out a way to give more reliable and more regular updates. I realize, of course, that they are a relatively small shop, and that time spent communicating w/ customers is time away from the workbench. Again, I was very hesitant to write this, but I've expressed it to them before, and it doesn't lessen my excitement over getting my bass. The occasional text/email/pic would go a very long way. (Probably my biggest mistake was telling my buddies I was getting a new bass. For months, every time we meet to pick, someone asks, "When you getting your new bass?" Get's old saying over and over, "I don't know.")

This is a relatively minor criticism, and I am thrilled with the prospect of receiving my new bass. I don't anticipate ever wanting to replace it. And if Damon ever stops by, he doesn't have to play it - he is always free to enjoy my Engle!

 

[g-dude]

I'm hesitant to write this in a public forum, but I decided to. I think Eric and everyone at Upton are totally upstanding folk, who create a quality, well-priced product. My personal observation, however is that the COVID really threw them a curveball! I think their strengths are definitely in the area of workmanship and in-person service. As the build time for my bass has stretched, I've repeatedly wished they could figure out a way to give more reliable and more regular updates. I realize, of course, that they are a relatively small shop, and that time spent communicating w/ customers is time away from the workbench. Again, I was very hesitant to write this, but I've expressed it to them before, and it doesn't lessen my excitement over getting my bass. The occasional text/email/pic would go a very long way. (Probably my biggest mistake was telling my buddies I was getting a new bass. For months, every time we meet to pick, someone asks, "When you getting your new bass?" Get's old saying over and over, "I don't know.")

I think everywhere is in the boat. When it comes to smaller operations, I have sympathy...when it comes to things like the fact that Safelite didn’t bother to tell me that my replacement windshield hadn’t arrived before I showed up for an appointment, and they haven’t given me a real update in 2 weeks, I have no sympathy.

Sometimes delays work out — my Barefaced cab was subject to delay, but that ensured that my cab wasn’t delivered until I was back from vacation.

 

[Ed S]

...
Sometimes delays work out — my Barefaced cab was subject to delay, but that ensured that my cab wasn’t delivered until I was back from vacation.

I should stress that each of the few times there was minor miscommunication betw/ me and Upton, they were IMMEDIATELY willing to address my concerns, and - as best I can recall - each instance was resolved in my favor.

My comment includes a large amount of my just being really eager to get my hands on this bass, after persuading myself to get it. Something HUGE and unforeseeable would have to happen for me to cease to be a strong fan of Upton and their products.

Admittedly, Uptons are not the only quality basses out there, and I could imagine you could find comparable basses somewhat cheaper - tho I'm not sure how much cheaper. There might be advantages to buying a different brand from a quality local shop, if you wanted an ongoing in-person relationship.

 

[damonsmith]

Admittedly, Uptons are not the only quality basses out there, and I could imagine you could find comparable basses somewhat cheaper - tho I'm not sure how much cheaper.

In the lower range, from the ones I have tried and priced, they are about 1k over similar quality basses on the market. They are not basses for anyone who thinks 1k isn't nothing, unless you feel it is money well spent towards made in the US and the personal service they are known for.
I am regularly asked about student basses form my students as well as random bassists from all over the world at this point, so I do keep an eye on the market.

 

[lurk]

I gotta agree with @damonsmith above. The Upton's that students have brought in to me are very ordinary and no better than the significantly cheaper offerings from String Emporium and Gollihur. I'm talking entry level plys here. I have no experience with Upton's higher level basses. I have trouble imagining that they could compete with the Thompson hybrid from String Emporium though for value.

 

[groooooove]

I gotta agree with @damonsmith above. The Upton's that students have brought in to me are very ordinary and no better than the significantly cheaper offerings from String Emporium and Gollihur. I'm talking entry level plys here. I have no experience with Upton's higher level basses. I have trouble imagining that they could compete with the Thompson hybrid from String Emporium though for value.

no idea what an upton ply costs, but i've played many shen ply basses, they really are fantastic for what they are and i can't picture a day where a cheaper bass would appear "better" to me.


I think the higher-priced uptons that i've played were great.

 

[Mark_T]

Way back when Upton had a shop in Boston (and I still lived there) I'd visit every so often to try out basses. It's been a few years now, so my memory isn't that fresh, but I recall liking their instruments (that said, I don't own one, I've always ended up with something else...).

I think what's been said here makes sense - some of the better quality imported instruments might give Upton a run for their money at the lowest end. As has been pointed out, Upton is employing folks here in the US, and that is always going to cost a bit more.

There's one more thing that I haven't seen noted here, which is that Upton also offers a lot of a la carte customization even (I believe) on their entry-level instruments. Now, you could buy an imported plywood bass and have it modified to suit you, but Upton will design your instrument with those modifications from the get go. Not everyone will need that sort of thing, but it is, I believe, unique to the entry level market.

 

[g-dude]

On the US made issue, I think about it like this: how much money should someone save on my employer’s product before I would feel happy that I didn’t have a job because my position needed to be outsourced to save costs.

 

[glocke1]

I'll chime in.

Its been a a year and two days since I picked up my Upton standard ply. 11/09/19 is when I drove up to Mystic from Bucks County and drove home with that puppy.

From the time I placed the order until pickup, the Upton folks did a great job in communicating to me the progress of my bass, and responded quickly to the questions I had along the way.

Prior to the Upton I was renting a Shen SB80. It was not a great instrument in that it had no setup, no bridge adjusters and was just not a pleasant instrument to learn on. Had the Shen been setup better and if it had bridge adjusters it might have worked out but in the end I was left wanting something else.

Short of it is I could have taken 2k and found a Shen that was setup from some other shop, but I also didn't want to spend days driving around to different shops looking for a bass, I didn't know any experienced players that would go with me to help me, etc.etc..lastly, I just couldn't get past the orangish finish on the Shens I saw. Nit-picking there but I wanted something that wasn't so "garish".

Upton came recommended to me by my bass teacher as well as a few others so after much thought I put a deposit down on one.

Have to say that a year later I am still loving the bass. It sounds great, it plays great, stays in tune, and I am very happy with it. To my ears, it has a good amount of warmth and woodiness to it. Very happy with it. If you can afford the premium that goes with a USA Made instrument, you won't be dissatisfied.

 

[Keith Rawlings]

Before Covid, I was considering purchasing an Upton Concord. Eric was amazing on the phone and via email explaining the process and how I could have the instrument customized to my needs. They sent an itemized breakdown of the cost, build time, and options. I’m hoping that if my industry picks up in the coming months that I can pull the trigger on this build and get my “forever bass.” The Concord is beautiful and I’m confident that I’ll be more than happy with it as I have several friends who gig Uptons and are very happy with them. Buying American is also very important to me so I’ll gladly pay a bit more for a quality instrument built in the states.

 

[Ed S]

On the US made issue, I think about it like this: how much money should someone save on my employer’s product before I would feel happy that I didn’t have a job because my position needed to be outsourced to save costs.

Not sure how much this should play into any individual's decision, and would likely vary depending on your budget, but my personal experience (with a wife who is a luthier) is that in the last couple of decades, the growth of the Chinese market has resulted in far cheaper instruments being available at just about every price/quality level (probably below the very top). For the average consumer, that is likely a tremendous boon, as you can get a very good instrument relatively inexpensively. But it has seriously impacted the career opportunities of someone who wishes to make instruments.

To practice varnishing and setup, my wife has bought VERY SERVICEABLE Chinese violins in the white for $50. Made in China DOES NOT (necessarily) mean poorly constructed. There is NO WAY an individual maker could come close to that price point. Not saying any individual ought to incur any particular costs to allow any other individual or company to pursue their desired career. But since I CAN afford to, I am pleased to be able to encourage and support domestic companies paying living wages. Just my opinion/choice.

 

[BobKay]

Not sure how much this should play into any individual's decision, and would likely vary depending on your budget, but my personal experience (with a wife who is a luthier) is that in the last couple of decades, the growth of the Chinese market has resulted in far cheaper instruments being available at just about every price/quality level (probably below the very top). For the average consumer, that is likely a tremendous boon, as you can get a very good instrument relatively inexpensively. But it has seriously impacted the career opportunities of someone who wishes to make instruments.

To practice varnishing and setup, my wife has bought VERY SERVICEABLE Chinese violins in the white for $50. Made in China DOES NOT (necessarily) mean poorly constructed. There is NO WAY an individual maker could come close to that price point. Not saying any individual ought to incur any particular costs to allow any other individual or company to pursue their desired career. But since I CAN afford to, I am pleased to be able to encourage and support domestic companies paying living wages. Just my opinion/choice.

Your final point is one I made, perhaps earlier in this thread. Made in the USA was very important to me when I started shopping seven years ago, and still is. If I spent an extra $1K or $2K when I bought my two basses, I did it knowingly. I'm not disparaging the quality of any of the imported instruments; I'm sure I could have gotten an instrument as good or perhaps better in some way. But I didn't care - I could support a small US business, and as a former small US business owner, I felt good about that.

 

[damonsmith]

I just don't see the logic of burning an extra grand or more on an entry level bass.

 

[BobKay]

I just don't see the logic of burning an extra grand or more on an entry level bass.

Believe me, it was not the first illogical decision I've ever made, and won't be the last. And I'm 73 yrs old! Made in the USA was and is important to me. Doesn't have to be important to anyone else.

 

[g-dude]

Not sure how much this should play into any individual's decision, and would likely vary depending on your budget, but my personal experience (with a wife who is a luthier) is that in the last couple of decades, the growth of the Chinese market has resulted in far cheaper instruments being available at just about every price/quality level (probably below the very top). For the average consumer, that is likely a tremendous boon, as you can get a very good instrument relatively inexpensively. But it has seriously impacted the career opportunities of someone who wishes to make instruments.

To practice varnishing and setup, my wife has bought VERY SERVICEABLE Chinese violins in the white for $50. Made in China DOES NOT (necessarily) mean poorly constructed. There is NO WAY an individual maker could come close to that price point. Not saying any individual ought to incur any particular costs to allow any other individual or company to pursue their desired career. But since I CAN afford to, I am pleased to be able to encourage and support domestic companies paying living wages. Just my opinion/choice.

I think it should actually play a large decision — every time you purchase something, you’re picking winners and losers. If someone cares about: human rights, the environment, worker safety, etc., you need to factor that into your decision.

The reason why no individual maker could come close to Chinese price points is that the people in the value chain all want to earn a livable wage that adequately compensates them for their efforts. I don’t understand how people can demand things like a $15 minimum wage, while simultaneously undercutting efforts to keep people employed in good paying jobs just so that they can save a few bucks.

For me, it’s not even about the quality - it’s about so much more than that. There are plenty of countries out there where people are treated fairly, and I’m happy to purchase their goods and services.

 

[g-dude]

I just don't see the logic of burning an extra grand or more on an entry level bass.

The same argument can be made against hiring union musicians or paying scale.

And it is literally the same argument: because someone can/is willing to be paid less, I’m going to pay them less and ignore the implications of that.

 

[bassmanbrent]

If someone cares about: human rights, the environment, worker safety, etc., you need to factor that into your decision.

For some folks, 'Not Made in China' is just as important, or more important, than 'Made in the USA' for all the above reasons. I totally get that.

 

[Ed S]

I think it should actually play a large decision — every time you purchase something, you’re picking winners and losers. If someone cares about: human rights, the environment, worker safety, etc., you need to factor that into your decision.
...

We're getting quite a ways from the OP, but I agree that there are ethical aspects to many spending choices. I remember reading one time that if you buy ANY jeans for less than something like $50, you are supporting either child labor or pollutions somewhere in the world. Buy what you want, but don't pretend there are no externalities. Are you happy to shop at WalMart or Amazon to get the cheapest price, even as you see smaller businesses go under? Given the option, will you pay ANY premium to shop locally?

I find this topic interesting, but, like I said, pretty far from a discussion of basses.

Not going to re-read the entire thread, but have we seen anyone who chose to go with Upton say they regretted the choice or had any complaints about their instrument? I think the only thing I've seen is some/several people think Upton entry-level plys are unnecessarily pricey compared to alternatives. While you can definitely get a Shen cheaper, I note Uptons are not the priciest - Cleveland LaScala/New Standard for example. Possibly Lemurs, and I suspect others. Some people would be choosing an Upton as an alternative to an old Kay/King/Englehardt - which could easily run $3k.

Has anyone said anything negative for any basses above the entry-level? Personally, I probably wouldn't go with Upton for my entry-ply. And I didn't (tho I hadn't heard of them at the time.) But now that I'm upgrading, they were the best choice for me.

IMO there is a great value to being able to customize so many aspects of my bass to suit my personal needs/wants, and the convenience of doing it at a single shop - as opposed to engaging in an ongoing search for "the right bass".