External Hard Drives

[Daniel L.]

I've read that it is better to store your recording projects on a different HD than your main HD. So, I am thinking of buying an external HD.

Who here is using an external HD for this purpose? What size are you using? What brand? What should you look for in an external HD?

 

[i_got_a_mohawk]

I dont have one, yet.

But im planning on getting a Western Digital MyBook.

Im either going to get a firewire one, or a SATA one.

Not sure on the size yet.

 

[Standalone]

I've just started using a USB drive, and its been fast enough for me-- no noticeable hiccups. (Celeron 1.7 Laptop, Cubase LE, Firepod, 8 tracks taken live, no effects applied during recording....)

 

[Valerus]

Western Digital Mybook's are great.

 

[i_got_a_mohawk]

I've just started using a USB drive, and its been fast enough for me-- no noticeable hiccups. (Celeron 1.7 Laptop, Cubase LE, Firepod, 8 tracks taken live, no effects applied during recording....)

How did you manage that? I was under the impression Cubase LE could only record 2 tracks at once?

 

[thehurlatron]

Glyph

The End.



I use a glyph 250gb drive fire wire 800 and 400

 

[D.A.R.K.]

Western Digital Mybook's are great.

+1, just got my wife the 500 gig for 200 bucks.
i use gtech raid1 drives now for my music projects and video, next best thing to glyph drives that i've found. i also use a gtech mini 7200rpm buss powered fw drive for mobile storage...awesome little drive. glyph is just about the best, only because they have a data retrieval guarantee if the drive goes down.
but they are pricey...but not as much as data retrieval.
i'd steer clear of lacie. out of 4 drives, 2 have gone bad on me,
lots of bad reports on the net if you look around.
a good rule of thumb is firewire, 7200 rpm, 8mb catch minimum
for streaming multiple audio tracks(more than 2).

 

[bluestarbass]

LaCie and Glyph are pretty much the industry standards. It has to be 7200 or faster to process audio. In college my professors always warned, if your recording audio to the same drive your program is on, its when not if it will crash.

 

[hunta]

I have a WD mybook 500 gig connected by FW400 (has USB 2 and FW800 as well, my laptop doesn't have FW800). I read a few somewhat negative reviews after I bought it but I've had no problems. Get firewire or eSATA (if you have it). USB will cause problems if you're recording a lot of tracks.

 

[i_got_a_mohawk]

LaCie and Glyph are pretty much the industry standards. It has to be 7200 or faster to process audio. In college my professors always warned, if your recording audio to the same drive your program is on, its when not if it will crash.

I dont quite get what your saying.

Recording to the same drive as the program is the best thing to do?
and recording to a different drive that the program isnt on will cause problems?

Sorry, just isnt very clear.

Ive recorded to a secondary harddrive before when cubase is on the main drive, and never had any issues. I do prefer saving to my C drive aslong as there is space tho, just because its 10,000 rpm and it can keep up with ease

 

[J.Stone]

LaCie and Glyph are pretty much the industry standards. It has to be 7200 or faster to process audio. In college my professors always warned, if your recording audio to the same drive your program is on, its when not if it will crash.

You professor talks utter balls. When you load your application of choice (Cubase in my case) the computer loads all the application information into the memory of the machine. When you then hit the record button it's directly(ish) recording the music to the hard drive. I've been recording hours of audio through my laptop (250gb external with cubase on it) and It's never, ever, crashed.

My advice is this...get an "external hard drive enclosure", not an "external hard drive". Difference is that an enclosure can be upgraded. If you buy a 3.5" enclosure (SATA) you can then buy say, a 250GB SATA Hard drive and put it in there. It also means if you end up having masses of data you want to carry around with you, that you can just carry around multiple hard drives, instead of multiple external hard drives.

That's my view on it anyway.

Oh, there's also a new Wester Digital (I think?) that runs off USB and can be plugged upto the internet so you can access your files from where ever you are in the world.

Edit: 7.2k RPM or 10k RPM, it makes no difference in recording to disk. I might actually be willing to bet that you'd be fine with a slower RPM too.

 

[DocBop]

Using a second hard drive whether it is internal or external is best way to go and how servers are built. You don't want your OS and swap space (virtual memory) on same drive with your app or data. By doing that the OS and swap which are getting are getting referenced all the time aren't fighting with your app or data. This would be even more important for recording which is a long stream of data being laid down.

Even when I only have one hard drive I still partition it so OS is by itself and I don't install anything on that partition. That way if something goes wrong with writing data the OS is isolated. If I have to rebuilt the OS I can reformat its partition and reinstall, but my apps and data are isolated in their partition and still there.

 

[deaf pea]

LaCie and Glyph are pretty much the industry standards. It has to be 7200 or faster to process audio...

...7.2k RPM or 10k RPM, it makes no difference in recording to disk. I might actually be willing to bet that you'd be fine with a slower RPM too.

7200 or 10K RPM should be fine, but anything less could be asking for trouble if you've got a lotta' tracks and/or a lotta' edits . . . YMMV, but that's MY opinion, AND it's also what the guys at ProTools say is "the minimum" . . .
BTW, I've got 2000Gigs of FHD, some at 400 and some at 800 (just bragging ). IMO, the smaller ones (120Gb or 250Gb) are more "practical" for recording . . . the bigger ones (250Gb, 500Gb or Nano=1000Gb) are better for back-ups and completed projects.
Also, ALL external FirewireHD mentioned should, IMO, be partitioned into partitions of 20-35Gb (that should be enough for the audios for a CD-length project).

 

[J.Stone]

Also, ALL external FirewireHD mentioned should, IMO, be partitioned into partitions of 20-35Gb (that should be enough for the audios for a CD-length project).

A) Bothering with Firewire, to me, is a complete waste. I'll explain in greater detail in a second.
B) Partitioning the drive for different projects (that's an actual partition) is a terrible idea. If I'm remembering right, you'd probably end up with a more active drive by using multiple partitions than simply slapping it in a folder. It also means that if you create a 35gb partition and for some reason you require more, you have to go create a new partition! Unless you didn't really mean an actual partition in the drive, in which case ignore the above.

I may only be 19 but I've been around computers for a damn long time. There a few things that are key when you think about how useful stuff is, for instance! Your average 7200 RPM drive will actually only achieve a constant write data rate of 40MB/s - 55MB/s and hell, even the best 10k Raptor drive might just scrape 75MB/s, AT MOST(They'll generally pull around 60MB/s). The only reason you should ever both with Raptor drives is for random access seek time and guess what! You're only cutting maybe 0.004s off random access seek for a task that isn't heavily dependent on seek. It's all well and good having 150MB/s SATA and all that lark, but when your drives can't read and transmit data anywhere CLOSE to that speed, what's the point? I mean take Firewire, that's 800Mb/s (NOTE: MEGABITS). That's 100MB/s (NOTE: MEGABYTES). USB2.0? 480Mb/s (60MB/s). If you're getting a 7200 RPM external drive or enclosure, it doesn't matter if it's USB or Firewire as they'll both return pretty much exactly the same results. If you're buying 10k Raptors for file storage or audio recording, again...You're wasting your money. They're designed for Data bases, file servers and at a push, gamers. The random access speeds of a hard drive are far more important in those fields than they ever could be to the audio editing field eek this has turned into a bit of a rant and now it's 3:40am.

P.S. Check this baby out! http://www.lacie.com/us/products/product.htm?pid=10718

 

[deaf pea]

...B) Partitioning the drive for different projects (that's an actual partition) is a terrible idea. If I'm remembering right, you'd probably end up with a more active drive by using multiple partitions than simply slapping it in a folder. It also means that if you create a 35gb partition and for some reason you require more, you have to go create a new partition! Unless you didn't really mean an actual partition in the drive, in which case ignore the above...

I have 35GB partitions in my 250GB FHDs . . . and partitioning ISN'T a thing you do when "you require more" space . . . you do it ONCE, when you first put a new FHD into service. And BTW, it's MUCH faster looking for a file in a 35 GB partition than in a 250GB FHD!

...I may only be 19 but I've been around computers for a damn long time...

I don't wanta' start a "pi$$ing contest", but I've "been around computers" quite a bit longer than you've been ALIVE!

...You're only cutting maybe 0.004s off random access seek for a task that isn't heavily dependent on seek...

But random-access audio recording, editing and mixing IS "heavily dependent on seek" times . . .

...If you're getting a 7200 RPM external drive or enclosure, it doesn't matter if it's USB or Firewire as they'll both return pretty much exactly the same results...

FWIW, ALL of the external hard drives at the studio that I work at have BOTH USB AND Firewire interfaces. And most of them have BOTH 400 AND 800 firewire . . .

 

[geoffkhan]

As previously mentioned in this thread, get a Glyph. They're pretty quiet, and they won't go to sleep like "mainstream" harddrives like Western Digital ones do. I highly recommend them.

 

[J.Stone]

I have 35GB partitions in my 250GB FHDs . . . and partitioning ISN'T a thing you do when "you require more" space . . . you do it ONCE, when you first put a new FHD into service. And BTW, it's MUCH faster looking for a file in a 35 GB partition than in a 250GB FHD!

You seem to have miss understood me. A partition is like segmenting a drive. If you've got a 100gb drive and you put it into two segments you should end up with two 50gb segments which present them selves in the operating system as separate 50gb drives. There are many reasons for partitioning, but decreasing seek time is not one of them. See, performance is decreased due to the fact that data requested simultaneously from the separate partitions will in fact half in read time due to the HDD head needing to perform twice the amount of operations. Even if you're just sitting there doing mixing from a single partition and not touching the other one, the operating system is still asking for information from the other partition.

If you want to reduce your seek times, just use it as a single drive. Just use a folder filing system. It also means that if for some reason your project went over 35gb, that you wouldn't have to go make a new partition (afaik partitions are generally fixed in their size. ).

I don't wanta' start a "pi$$ing contest", but I've "been around computers" quite a bit longer than you've been ALIVE!

That's fair enough.

But random-access audio recording, editing and mixing IS "heavily dependent on seek" times . . .

On the note of recording, no. It's not segmented. If you've ever wondered why you have to defrag your HDDs every now and then it's because the drive doesn't write all your files in a nice pretty line on the disk. They get scattered around. With audio recording you could be doing gigs of data recorded directly to a disk, and the disk doesn't care where it's recorded, it just slaps it down. This reduces the importance of seek on write operations.

On editing and mixing, yes. It's more seek dependent than recording, but it's also not as VITAL to have a fast seek time that you shell out a bomb on a 10k Raptor drive specifically for it. The slight difference between Raptors and 7.2k drives. When you open a cubase project or the like, most the "loading" time isn't even seek related. It's data transfer, memory and CPU related. Sure, when you're snipping bits here and there it'd be nice to have 10k raptors set up in a raid array to reduce your seek massively, but it's not that damn important and certainly not worth the price tag. For a data base that's receiving 1000 requests for information, a 10k raptor drive is a god send. For audio editing, you're better off getting a decent CPU and a mass chunk of memory because they're far more important than disk seek could ever be.

Also, when you work with large volumes your seek time is greatly reduced. So if you're running a 400gb disk cut into 20 partitions of 20gb, your seek time has pretty much gone out the window anyway...

FWIW, ALL of the external hard drives at the studio that I work at have BOTH USB AND Firewire interfaces. And most of them have BOTH 400 AND 800 firewire . . .

That's fair enough. The fun one will be USB3.0. That baby cranks out 4.7Gigabits/s. That's 602MB/s! Most of which will never be used by a hard drive...Not until solid state comes into the equation. Oh those look fun.

Edit: It's also worth mentioning that Audio / Video editing is HEAVILY CPU/Memory reliant. It'd be better to have an Intel Q6600 and 3GB of memory (max 32bit OS's allow) than a rack of 10k raptors.
Edit 2: In fact, your best bet for good bang for buck is to take a load of cheap and reliable drives and put them in a raid array.

 

[i_got_a_mohawk]

You professor talks utter balls. When you load your application of choice (Cubase in my case) the computer loads all the application information into the memory of the machine. When you then hit the record button it's directly(ish) recording the music to the hard drive. I've been recording hours of audio through my laptop (250gb external with cubase on it) and It's never, ever, crashed.

My advice is this...get an "external hard drive enclosure", not an "external hard drive". Difference is that an enclosure can be upgraded. If you buy a 3.5" enclosure (SATA) you can then buy say, a 250GB SATA Hard drive and put it in there. It also means if you end up having masses of data you want to carry around with you, that you can just carry around multiple hard drives, instead of multiple external hard drives.

That's my view on it anyway.

Oh, there's also a new Wester Digital (I think?) that runs off USB and can be plugged upto the internet so you can access your files from where ever you are in the world.

Edit: 7.2k RPM or 10k RPM, it makes no difference in recording to disk. I might actually be willing to bet that you'd be fine with a slower RPM too.

While its true about getting an enclosure, i just cant be bothered with the hassle. I doubt im going to fill up a half Tb enclosure with recordings (that are worth keeping)

7.2 or 10K, yes, it doesnt make much of a different, ive used both (when recording to a secondary drive, the secondaries i have are 7.2K and i had no problem), but knowing your harddrive is more than capable gives a level of peace of mind.

That internet accessable harddrive isnt that new either, a friend of mine has had one for a few years now, great way for friends to share, erm, music[/] videos

 

[i_got_a_mohawk]

On editing and mixing, yes. It's more seek dependent than recording, but it's also not as VITAL to have a fast seek time that you shell out a bomb on a 10k Raptor drive specifically for it. The slight difference between Raptors and 7.2k drives. When you open a cubase project or the like, most the "loading" time isn't even seek related. It's data transfer, memory and CPU related. Sure, when you're snipping bits here and there it'd be nice to have 10k raptors set up in a raid array to reduce your seek massively, but it's not that damn important and certainly not worth the price tag. For a data base that's receiving 1000 requests for information, a 10k raptor drive is a god send. For audio editing, you're better off getting a decent CPU and a mass chunk of memory because they're far more important than disk seek could ever be.

Its nice to have windows load up quickly, applications load faster etc. I never bought it specifically for recording, i bought it because i wanted as fast a pc as i could get at the time. And as for it being fast, your right, mate of mine has two of the newer 150Gb ones in a RAID0 array
Also, im guessing it may be because your 19, but raptors arent that expensive, at the time (4 years back i think it must be) it cost a damned sight less than my 3.2Ghz P4 did

That's fair enough. The fun one will be USB3.0. That baby cranks out 4.7Gigabits/s. That's 602MB/s! Most of which will never be used by a hard drive...Not until solid state comes into the equation. Oh those look fun.

And dude, there are far more cool things coming into play than USB3.0, the posibilities nanotechnology are bringing into the computer industry are pretty awesome

(and anyways, USB3.0 will probably be like USB2.0, start off fast, and 10 seconds later be down to 10Kb/s or whatnot )

 

[kevinmoore73]

Some of the technical "advice" being provided in this thread is astounding. Partitioning drives for speed benefit? USB 2.0 being faster than Firewire 400? Wow.

Seriously, if you don't actually know what you're talking about, stop attempting to provide advice to other people. Spreading inaccurate information only hurts people.

For a lot of people, a USB 2.0 external drive will be acceptable. Other people will find that a Firewire 400 drive suits them better. Others will prefer Firewire 800. Some people may use SCSI drives. Others still will need fibre channel.

In no case will partitioning a single external drive provide a speed benefit. Read about how filesystems work if you don't believe me.