• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Extra Cabinet vs bi-amping vs new amp.

kjpollo

kjpollo

Mar 17, 2008
3,456
87
CT
#1
OK, you amp pros, I need and would greatly appreciate some assistance.
I have a 16-17 YO Crate 150 Watt combo with a single 15.

I'm presently rehearsing with a guitarist and drummer doing prog-metal-ish originals. I'm competing with the guitarists 500 watt half-stack.
I'm considering adding a 2x10 cabinet to the combo since it has both bi-amping capabilities PLUS a plain external speaker jack.
Given what I'm dealing with-is it even worth my time to add the cabinet or should I start looking for a more powerful system instead?
I figure I should be able to land a decent used 2x10 for around $100 or so which I can do right now but if I need to upgrade the whole shooting match-I need to start saving the pennies!

Any and all advice is greatly appreciated.

Thanks
 
#6
hrm...you may get by with what you have. He can just turn down and 150 may keep up with a drummer with PA support. If you're happy with what you have and the other guy is willing to turn down then i say get a 210. Probably a better option is to look at what you're going to want if you upgrade and buy a cab that will fit in your next rig. that way you're helping yourself now AND building for the future.

guitarists 500 watt half-stack
Click to expand...
is he using a rack system?? what the crap kinda head is he using?
 
#8
Ask the guitarist politely to turn down. Way down.

Really, if you can't yell to each other while playing then everything's too loud. Also, ear plugs are your friend big time.

My only amp advice to you is to save your pennies and ditch that combo. You'd be much better served with a used head and a decent cab. If you want to be loud for cheap I recommend GK gear or Carvin for cheap power.
 
#10
Earplugs are already in use. But the genuine concern is appreciated.

Actually, the guitarist isnt as loud as he could be (thankfully) but I'm just not sure how much the amp can take. I actually found some of my original paperwork in the back of the cabinet-this puppy's gonna be 20 years old in November!
Granted, it hasnt been pushed hard for most of that time but I know I'm running at close to full volume and we havent added a vocalist yet.

I think I'm leaning toward upgrading and I was definitely thinking GK because their stuff seems relatively reasonably priced and I'm somewhat familiar with the sound quality. I havent seen too much used Carvin stuff come up in my area-its too bad because thats a brand I wouldnt mind trying. I have a 15 year old LB-75 that just had its FIRST neck adjustment ever so my experience with the brand has been very satisfactory so far.

How about Peavey? How do their systems compare?

When the time comes to get an updated rig, I expect to keep the Crate for home use but I need technical advice on one of the amp's features.
If I added a 2x10 cab, would I plug it into the "external speaker" jack OR into one of the bi-amp jacks? Which option would yield the best results?

Thanks very much for all the help so far. This is a new area of research for me and this website is a great resource for finding help on all sorts of topics.
 
#11
Can't go wrong with Peavey, even the new stuff, but I think their cabs are a bit overpriced now new.

I'd get a Peavey Tour 700 and a couple Avatar 212s at 8 ohms if I went that route. (should be out the door at 1100 before bargaining the peavey down to 450, which should be doable).
 
#12
Here I go again, Carvin B1500, nearly 2000W. If I was in the market for a new amp I would most likely buy one. Carvin is the mainstay of my gear and I've nver had a problem with the stuff. Try it at home for ten days if you don't like it end it bsck for a full refund. I've never sent anything back.

Paul
 
#13
A 500w half stack? What the heck amp is that?!? Most guitar amps that run in a stack are 50 or 100w. Are you sure you got that right that it's 500w? A 50w half stack can be ear-splittingly loud.
 
#14
I had a 200w Peavey guitar amp with a half stack (4 twelves) set up in my friends living room, and as an experiment I put in earplugs and turned it up 75% for a quick power-chord. The man mowing his lawn down the street looked up.

As a side note: on the back near the fuses there was a listing for 800 watts. It was not the output power, as my guitar teacher corrected me.
 
#15
chriscrob said:
Probably a better option is to look at what you're going to want if you upgrade and buy a cab that will fit in your next rig. that way you're helping yourself now AND building for the future.
Click to expand...

+1

Always being on a budget myself, this is the best idea I've seen. Maybe get yourself an extension cab that you can use with your current setup that will still be a usable component when you get around to upgrading with a new head and cab in the future.

And what does any 1 guitarist need with more than 50 watts, or 100 for an outdoor gig? But 500? My ears are ringing just by reading that!
 
#16
Well if you are somehow managing to get the job done at present, or pretty close to it, I think you should pick up that used 210 you mentioned. That will give you a lot of extra volume right away and in the meantime keep saving for a bigger rig. You shouldn't have any trouble getting your money back on the used cab if you decide to sell it when you get the new rig.
 
#17
The help is appreciated. thanks folks.

OK, judging by the horrified reactions of some of you to my description of the guitarists rig, I'm guessing I probably got the wattage wrong on his amp rig. I'll try to clarify this point so I have a better idea of what I'm competing with.

There are some good amp suggestions in this thread too, for which I'm grateful. I just dont have the budget for anything new right now so I'm leaning toward finding good value used gear.

There's just one question still hanging out there. If I DO get the extra cab, which output jack gives me better output-the external speaker jack or one of the bi-amp's outputs? I would THINK a bi-amp output would be better but since I'm totally unfamiliar with how the bi-amp thing works any info on that part of the scenario would be really helpful.

I'm really glad for the help-this is new territory for me and I was really feeling over-my-head a bit.
 
#18
OK I dont actually know the combo which you have but I very much doubt it can Biamp on its own. It may have a biamp out, which would be post crossover and an INPUT to another external power amp of some kind. to make use of the biampo facilities you would also need to get that power amp.

The thing is you are talking about a mono combo here, to truly be a biamp ready head it needs two power amps and I really really doubt it does, so you are going to have to plug into the external speaker out.

FWIW I did used to have a true biamping head from the mid 90's - I never saw a combo that did it for real though...

If I'm wrong about this can someone chime in and put me right please :)

On the plus side you wont get the full power froim the one amp you do have without another cab, so that may be as much as 3dB more grunt, plus another cab will almost certainly double the speaker area at least, which is about another 3dB gain.

6 dB is 4x as loud effectively (not perceived as such but in terms of power) so that would significantly help.
 
#19
kjpollo said:
There's just one question still hanging out there. If I DO get the extra cab, which output jack gives me better output-the external speaker jack or one of the bi-amp's outputs? I would THINK a bi-amp output would be better but since I'm totally unfamiliar with how the bi-amp thing works any info on that part of the scenario would be really helpful.
Click to expand...

ok, I'll try my best to answer this question. Understand though that I am not very familiar with your amp so I will make a few assumptions.

Your amp has an external speaker jack. This tells me that the speaker already in this combo is an 8-ohm speaker. If you use this output you need another 8-ohm cab (I also assume that this is a parallel output jack) that way the amplifier sees a 4-ohm load. Since the amplifier will have a 4-ohm load it will output more power...giving you more volume right off the bat.

The bi-amp output tells me that you have (most likely) an active cross-over. Since you already have a 15" speaker you could get a 2x10 and adjust the cross-over frequency until you find a tone you like...pay attention to speaker specs though.

Either way you will have an increased volume due to more speaker area pushing more air. If you plug in an 8-ohm cab into the extension jack you will benefit from the extra power from the amp giving you even more volume.

The fact that you do have a bi-amp feature is pretty cool and allows for some flexibility. You could get a 2x10, 1x12, or even a 2x12 that would allow you to use that feature. Getting another 15 would not necessarily make the most of the bi-amp feature.

Whatever your purchase is keep in mind that you probably want to buy something now that you can build on. With that in mind I would go with a 2x12. More air moving capability and low-end than most 2x10's, yet you could still take advantage of the bi-amp feature. Find a used Avatar 2x12.

just my $0.02
 
#20
51m0n and rumblinbass-thanks VERY much!!

I know virtually nothing about electronic theory so your responses have helped tremendously!

The owners manual indicates the output power rating has a 4 ohm load.
So I'm believing I should get a 4 ohm cab-am I correct? BTW-I wasnt planning on another 15" speaker. I was planning on a 2x10 but I would also consider a 2x12.
The manual also says that the external speaker jack is hooked up in parallel to the internal speaker jack.

Now on the front of the amp there is a Bi-amp frequency control-will this have any effect on a cab that is connected through the external speaker jack? I'm guessing no. If that's the case, the only way to utilize the bi-amp feature would be to run an additional output from each bi-amp output into another power amp and another cabinet for each part of the signal chain.

In any event-adding another cab will definitely make me louder in the grand scheme of things which is my ultimate goal.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back