Failed Audition

[1612]

Hey guys, just joined and I'm loving the forum! I have been playing the guitar and singing for about seven years (rhythm mostly - I am not as strong on my theory/scales as I'd like to be) and have been playing bass for about three months. I love the bass, even more than the guitar.

A well known cover band in my area were holding auditions the other day for a bass player. I knew I was not up to the level of other players auditioning but I thought it was important for me to at least try and get used to playing bass with a band and that it would be an experience. I learned 5 or 6 of the songs they asked and played them (missed a couple notes but sounded fine over all). Then they asked me about other songs which I didn't know so I just told them I hadn't learned them yet. They also asked me to sing a little which normally Im used to having sung and played guitar with a band before but I find it much more difficult to play bass and sing. I managed to soldier through it though.

The band were very nice people and I know I didn't make a total fool of myself considering how nervous I was but ever since I can't help but feel slightly discouraged. I find it hard to listen to music now because I feel like I'll never be at a level where I can play bass comfortably with a band. I know practice is key and I practice as much as I can but I suppose I'm looking for some advice on what I should focus on right now as a beginner (scales, theory etc.) and how to feel motivated rather than discouraged about my playing.

Thanks for reading this novel...

 

[angryclown5]

Take some lessons. Theory is important for bass players. Study and apply rhythms to the popular music you want to play.

Learn chord theory - it will make you sound better and make it easier to learn new material.

Continue to sing. Bass players who sing are a valuable commodity and usually win auditions over non singers everything else being equal.

I got passed over for a bass job in a rock band when I was about 19 ( ancient history), and I've been working on improving ever since. Truly a life long pursuit.

 

[Edwcdc]

Only playing bass for 3 months and not getting the job isn't a big deal. Just give yourself time to become more solid. With bass, it takes time to get the feel. You can learn the notes and the arrangement but the "feel" has to be there. The drummer will know! Also when learning songs for an audition, learn the ones they have picked for you since they were most likely chosen to get an idea what a prospect can do, but also do some extra credit. If you go in knowing a bunch of songs the band does they will see you as a plug and play option to their bass dilemma provided you are solid. Good luck and don't sweat this first audition.

 

[MalcolmAmos]

Scales are so we know where the notes are on our fretboard. Once you can hold your own with the scales then chord tones, is where you need to be spending your time. Why?

Little side trip into theory. The songwriter places chords in the song where they do two things; 1) move the verse along from rest (I) to tension (IV) to climax (V7) and then a return to rest (I) - so something new, another verse (another thought), another phrase, etc. can take place. And then 2) the chord is placed over/under the melody so the chord's notes will harmonize the melody, aka sound good with the melody. It's this sharing of notes that builds harmony. There is melody, harmony and rhythm. At this point in your journey leave the melody to the solo instruments and lets take care of harmony and rhythm. I'm not going to address rhythm in this paper. Little more on harmony...

Since the songwriter has placed the harmonizing chord at specific spots in the song if we want to sound good with what is happening in the song it makes since to play the notes of that harmonizing chord. So a Cmaj7 chord is coming up in the song we should play some of the notes of the Cmaj7 chord. Yep got to know what notes are in that chord. The Cmaj7 chord has this generic spelling R-3-5-7, i.e the root of the C scale, then the 3rd, 5th and 7th scale degree of that C scale. If a Fmaj7 chord was coming up I would still use the R-3-5-7, but, this time I'd be playing the root, 3, 5 and 7 notes of the F major scale.

Play as much of that spelling as the song will allow. Roots just by themselves will harmonize. A Root-5 would be better and if you have room add the 3 for R-3-5-3, or R-3-5-X. That X could be the walking bass line note that pulls you into the next chord. Long story, my point being scales are for learning how to find the notes, chord tones are what we are asked to play. Notice I'm talking numbers as well as A, B, C's. I'm a pattern guy, my patterns and the major scale box help me with what I do. See the A, B, C and after placing my box, I let the 1, 2, 3's guide my fingers. For example:

Bass Patterns based upon the Major Scale box. Re-read all of this while looking at the follow major scale box.
Link Removed
​

Major Scale Box.
G~~|---2---|-------|---3---|---4---| 1st string
D~~|---6---|-------|---7---|---8---|
A~~|---3---|---4---|-------|---5---|
E~~|-------|---R---|-------|---2---|4th string
I'm sure you have seen this box with just dots.
Adding the scale degree numbers lets the box become a living breathing visual aid.​

​

Basic Chord spellings

• Major Triad = R-3-5
• Minor Triad = R-b3-5
• Diminished Chord = R-b3-b5

7th Chord spellings

• Maj7 = R-3-5-7
• Minor 7 = R-b3-5-b7
• Dominant 7 = R-3-5-b7
• ½ diminished = R-b3-b5-b7
• Full diminished = R-b3-b5-bb7

See a chord and play it's chord tones. As every key will have three major, three minor and one diminished chord it's a good idea to get your major, minor and diminished bass line chord tones into muscle memory so when you see a chord your fingers just know what will work. Now the song may only give you enough room for the root, or root five - adapt and get as many chord tones into your bass line as needed. Root on 1 and a steady groove from the other chord tones plus something to call attention to the chord change is what we do.

That is the way I do it, that does not make it the only way, that is just one of many ways to play chord tones.


Have fun.

 

[fearceol]

Hi, and welcome to Talk Bass.

You certainly seem to have the right attitude, i.e. going to the audition and giving it your best shot. So what...?...if you failed. There will be others. You have only being playing bass for three months. That's a comparatively short time. Dont get disillusioned. With a little practice and patience you will have no problem playing bass in a band.

As for some opinions on where to go from here. A few lessons face to face with a teacher would be a good idea. Other advice would be to listen closely to the bass lines in songs, and try playing along. Dont depend too much on tabs, but instead develop your ear by trying to copy what you hear. It will be trial and error at first but worth it in the long run.

Learning some basic theory is worth spending some time on. For a start learn the major, minor, and pentatonic scales. You are probably familar with them from playing guitar. Just as important as scales are chord tones, as these are what we play as bassists most of the time.

www.studybass.com is a great site for basic theory.

Playing bass and singing at the same time is generally accepted as being hard to do.

Here is a link to a thread on the subject :

http://www.talkbass.com/threads/pra...indfolded-and-talking-simultaneously.1129481/


Hope this helps and best of luck with it.

 

[1612]

Hi, and welcome to Talk Bass.

You certainly seem to have the right attitude, i.e. going to the audition and giving it your best shot. So what...?...if you failed. There will be others. You have only being playing bass for three months. That's a comparatively short time. Dont get disillusioned. With a little practice and patience you will have no problem playing bass in a band.

As for some opinions on where to go from here. A few lessons face to face with a teacher would be a good idea. Other advice would be to listen closely to the bass lines in songs, and try playing along. Dont depend too much on tabs, but instead develop your ear by trying to copy what you hear. It will be trial and error at first but worth it in the long run.

Learning some basic theory is worth spending some time on. For a start learn the major, minor, and pentatonic scales. You are probably familar with them from playing guitar. Just as important as scales are chord tones, as these are what we play as bassists most of the time.

www.studybass.com is a great site for basic theory.

Playing bass and singing at the same time is generally accepted as being hard to do.

Here is a link to a thread on the subject :

http://www.talkbass.com/threads/pra...indfolded-and-talking-simultaneously.1129481/


Hope this helps and best of luck with it.

Thanks for the link! I've priced bass lessons in my city and they are so expensive! Gonna keep looking though. How many lessons do you reckon one needs to get them started?

 

[1612]

Scales are so we know where the notes are on our fretboard. Once you can hold your own with the scales then chord tones, is where you need to be spending your time. Why?

Little side trip into theory. The songwriter places chords in the song where they do two things; 1) move the verse along from rest (I) to tension (IV) to climax (V7) and then a return to rest (I) - so something new, another verse (another thought), another phrase, etc. can take place. And then 2) the chord is placed over/under the melody so the chord's notes will harmonize the melody, aka sound good with the melody. It's this sharing of notes that builds harmony. There is melody, harmony and rhythm. At this point in your journey leave the melody to the solo instruments and lets take care of harmony and rhythm. I'm not going to address rhythm in this paper. Little more on harmony...

Since the songwriter has placed the harmonizing chord at specific spots in the song if we want to sound good with what is happening in the song it makes since to play the notes of that harmonizing chord. So a Cmaj7 chord is coming up in the song we should play some of the notes of the Cmaj7 chord. Yep got to know what notes are in that chord. The Cmaj7 chord has this generic spelling R-3-5-7, i.e the root of the C scale, then the 3rd, 5th and 7th scale degree of that C scale. If a Fmaj7 chord was coming up I would still use the R-3-5-7, but, this time I'd be playing the root, 3, 5 and 7 notes of the F major scale.

Play as much of that spelling as the song will allow. Roots just by themselves will harmonize. A Root-5 would be better and if you have room add the 3 for R-3-5-3, or R-3-5-X. That X could be the walking bass line note that pulls you into the next chord. Long story, my point being scales are for learning how to find the notes, chord tones are what we are asked to play. Notice I'm talking numbers as well as A, B, C's. I'm a pattern guy, my patterns and the major scale box help me with what I do. See the A, B, C and after placing my box, I let the 1, 2, 3's guide my fingers. For example:

Bass Patterns based upon the Major Scale box. Re-read all of this while looking at the follow major scale box.
Link Removed
​

Major Scale Box.
G~~|---2---|-------|---3---|---4---| 1st string
D~~|---6---|-------|---7---|---8---|
A~~|---3---|---4---|-------|---5---|
E~~|-------|---R---|-------|---2---|4th string
I'm sure you have seen this box with just dots.
Adding the scale degree numbers lets the box become a living breathing visual aid.​

​

Basic Chord spellings

• Major Triad = R-3-5
• Minor Triad = R-b3-5
• Diminished Chord = R-b3-b5

7th Chord spellings

• Maj7 = R-3-5-7
• Minor 7 = R-b3-5-b7
• Dominant 7 = R-3-5-b7
• ½ diminished = R-b3-b5-b7
• Full diminished = R-b3-b5-bb7

See a chord and play it's chord tones. As every key will have three major, three minor and one diminished chord it's a good idea to get your major, minor and diminished bass line chord tones into muscle memory so when you see a chord your fingers just know what will work. Now the song may only give you enough room for the root, or root five - adapt and get as many chord tones into your bass line as needed. Root on 1 and a steady groove from the other chord tones plus something to call attention to the chord change is what we do.

That is the way I do it, that does not make it the only way, that is just one of many ways to play chord tones.


Have fun.

Wow, thanks for all this! I'll have a go at all of this over the weekend

 

[1612]

Take some lessons. Theory is important for bass players. Study and apply rhythms to the popular music you want to play.

Learn chord theory - it will make you sound better and make it easier to learn new material.

Continue to sing. Bass players who sing are a valuable commodity and usually win auditions over non singers everything else being equal.

I got passed over for a bass job in a rock band when I was about 19 ( ancient history), and I've been working on improving ever since. Truly a life long pursuit.

Yeah I got the feeling from the band that they were finding it hard to get a bassist who could sing so Im gonna try and master that even if I have to simplify the bass lines a little. I am actually 19 so I suppose I still have a good few decades of improving to do!

 

[lyla1953]

I didn't take the plunge you took until roughly 2 years into it. During those two years I had a very good instructor, with him I went through a complete method program, and a few other walking bass related books, know my fret board cold, had a rough grasp of reading notation, TAB with ease, did some scale/arpeggio work (but hated it) . During this period I also learned from the classic rock, blues era probably a dozen of the songs most bands for hire play - I add roughly 2 to 4 each week.
I then went out and did what you did at 3 months. After about 4 months of looking I've had some very good experiences and some not so however, I'm now with two bands and others are starting to call.
I don't sing at all.
Just keep plugging away - to me, rhythm was what I really needed to have solid before I stepped out. Have fun as each experience is just another step on your path to success.

 

[red_rhino]

I don't know if singing and playing bass is any harder relative to other instruments, but I do know that it is definitely a challenge.

But, you can master it.

After a lifetime of being mostly an instrumentalist and singing perhaps minimalist backup vocals, I found myself singing lead on a few songs last year when we lost our lead singer. It was a big step, and I've grown more musically over the last year than perhaps the last 10 years. It just opened up everything and changed the way I looked at myself as a player. Kicking myself for not having taken the plunge years ago.

That said, there are a few things you can (and should) do:
1. Set yourself up for success; choose songs you know you can sing. If somethings out of your range, don't fool yourself into thinking it'll sound okay.
2. Know the lyrics. Know the lyrics. Know the lyrics.
3. Find a good teacher who can help you improve your range and find your own voice. We always try to channel the singer we're covering; be comfortable with the sound of your own voice.

Continue to sing. Bass players who sing are a valuable commodity and usually win auditions over non singers everything else being equal.

Absolutely.

-Alan

 

[KeithPas]

Just play music with friends, have fun, take lessons from a reputable teacher and don;t be so hard on yourself.

 

[Feral Feline]

You didn't fail an audition, you gained valuable experience.

You may have been in the top three bass players the band auditioned, who knows, but for some small reason somebody else was a better fit for the band. Part of the experience gained is handling "rejection".

Lots of bass players auditioned for Metallica, Trujillo was the best fit according to the other members of the band and management. The other bass players who auditioned are not failures, they're gigging pros, each with there their own back-catalogue of accomplishments and set of abilities – they just weren't the right fit for Metallica.

I only use the Metallica example, because it was so "well documented" in the "reality" show.

So while it may sting and bruise your ego that you didn't get in this particular band, you'll be a stronger better player/person for having had the experience. Other bands need you.

Enjoy your bass and keep moving forward!

 

[petrus61]

Don't use auditions as a "let's see what happens" kind of experience if you're just starting out. Wait until you're fully confident and go prepared. A year later, you could be the next Jaco and not get hired because of word of mouth. That said, don't be discouraged. Let that be the fuel to drive you to do better next time. I think it was Geddy Lee that said one has to be willing to cope with failure to go anywhere as a musician. I think what he means is that we learn and get better with each small defeat of we don't get discouraged and keep plugging away.

 

[Linnin]

You didn't fail an audition, you gained valuable experience.

You may have been in the top three bass players the band auditioned, who knows, but for some small reason somebody else was a better fit for the band. Part of the experience gained is handling "rejection".

Lots of bass players auditioned for Metallica, Trujillo was the best fit according to the other members of the band and management. The other bass players who auditioned are not failures, they're gigging pros, each with there own back-catalogue of accomplishments and set of abilities – they just weren't the right fit for Metallica.

I only use the Metallica example, because it was so "well documented" in the "reality" show.

So while it may sting and bruise your ego that you didn't get in this particular band, you'll be a stronger better player/person for having had the experience. Other bands need you.

Enjoy your bass and keep moving forward!

+1111 Exactamundo, and very well said, Feral Feline.

 

[BassFishingInAmerica]

I've been playing for 30+ years and consider myself a pretty good bassist. There are always those times when I find some dude on YouTube that can just rip like no one else, and I feel like, "That's it. I give up." I wonder if anyone is ever as good as they want to be. One thing I can guarantee -- you will be better next year and way better the year after that. I totally get it -- everyone wants it right now. One thing, it's better to know you need more practice than to believe you are amazing after only 3 months (believe me, there are tons of young players like this.) As long as you don't stop, nothing can stop you.

 

[TyBo]

Good move on your part to audition and gain experience. Lots of good advice here. Keep on keepin' on!

 

[Bent77]

If you can maintain the same "humble but willing" attitude that we see here, it will all come together

 

[Celtic59]

One thing to work on is getting "in the pocket" with a drummer. Always works for me, the difference between a bassist + drummer and a rhythm section, plus you'll sound better if you're playing "with" the drummer. I'm always surprised just how many bassists aren't quite "in there" with the drums. And as the Angry Clown suggested, keep your vocals in shape, especially tenor harmony, it's expected in some bands. Lessons from a BASS guy are important, avoid guitar teachers who "double" as bass instructors. Even a few lessons can make a difference.

 

[Macch5]

Try and find some people you can just jam with for fun. Leaning theory and taking lessons is great but there is no substitute for playing with other people.

 

[JYBass]

Three words: Get a teacher. It may seem lame or too expensive, or like you just don't need to do it, but it isn't. It's worth it. A good teacher will improve your playing and knowledge at a highly accelerated rate compared to learning on your own.