Failed Audition

[BassChuck]

Work on the things that made you feel the most uncomfortable. Don't wait to 'be ready' get out there and do it again. Failure is a valid human experience, part of being a member of the human race.... at least the part that gets things done. The only way to avoid screwing up is to do nothing. Make this work for you... that's where success is.

 

[lfmn16]

. How many lessons do you reckon one needs to get them started?

The sooner you start, the less you'll need. Fewer bad habits to break and more time to practice what you learn.

You didn't get the job after three whole months playing the bass and you are discouraged??? Nothing wrong ith auditioning, as a matter of fact it's a good idea, but you need to set realistic expectations.

Get a teacher and good luck.

 

[jazzyitalian]

What MalcomAmos said......That's the ticket....

Scales are so we know where the notes are on our fretboard. Once you can hold your own with the scales then chord tones, is where you need to be spending your time. Why?

Little side trip into theory. The songwriter places chords in the song where they do two things; 1) move the verse along from rest (I) to tension (IV) to climax (V7) and then a return to rest (I) - so something new, another verse (another thought), another phrase, etc. can take place. And then 2) the chord is placed over/under the melody so the chord's notes will harmonize the melody, aka sound good with the melody. It's this sharing of notes that builds harmony. There is melody, harmony and rhythm. At this point in your journey leave the melody to the solo instruments and lets take care of harmony and rhythm. I'm not going to address rhythm in this paper. Little more on harmony...

Since the songwriter has placed the harmonizing chord at specific spots in the song if we want to sound good with what is happening in the song it makes since to play the notes of that harmonizing chord. So a Cmaj7 chord is coming up in the song we should play some of the notes of the Cmaj7 chord. Yep got to know what notes are in that chord. The Cmaj7 chord has this generic spelling R-3-5-7, i.e the root of the C scale, then the 3rd, 5th and 7th scale degree of that C scale. If a Fmaj7 chord was coming up I would still use the R-3-5-7, but, this time I'd be playing the root, 3, 5 and 7 notes of the F major scale.

Play as much of that spelling as the song will allow. Roots just by themselves will harmonize. A Root-5 would be better and if you have room add the 3 for R-3-5-3, or R-3-5-X. That X could be the walking bass line note that pulls you into the next chord. Long story, my point being scales are for learning how to find the notes, chord tones are what we are asked to play. Notice I'm talking numbers as well as A, B, C's. I'm a pattern guy, my patterns and the major scale box help me with what I do. See the A, B, C and after placing my box, I let the 1, 2, 3's guide my fingers. For example:

Bass Patterns based upon the Major Scale box. Re-read all of this while looking at the follow major scale box.
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Major Scale Box.
G~~|---2---|-------|---3---|---4---| 1st string
D~~|---6---|-------|---7---|---8---|
A~~|---3---|---4---|-------|---5---|
E~~|-------|---R---|-------|---2---|4th string
I'm sure you have seen this box with just dots.
Adding the scale degree numbers lets the box become a living breathing visual aid.​

​

Basic Chord spellings

• Major Triad = R-3-5
• Minor Triad = R-b3-5
• Diminished Chord = R-b3-b5

7th Chord spellings

• Maj7 = R-3-5-7
• Minor 7 = R-b3-5-b7
• Dominant 7 = R-3-5-b7
• ½ diminished = R-b3-b5-b7
• Full diminished = R-b3-b5-bb7

See a chord and play it's chord tones. As every key will have three major, three minor and one diminished chord it's a good idea to get your major, minor and diminished bass line chord tones into muscle memory so when you see a chord your fingers just know what will work. Now the song may only give you enough room for the root, or root five - adapt and get as many chord tones into your bass line as needed. Root on 1 and a steady groove from the other chord tones plus something to call attention to the chord change is what we do.

That is the way I do it, that does not make it the only way, that is just one of many ways to play chord tones.


Have fun.

 

[MightyMag]

Play bass everyday with tracks (rather than alone) and play long to build your stamina on bass. This will help you become a bass player rather than being a guitarist playing bass. I am pocket player who does not slap or solo. I have never been attracted to anything more than playing a solid groove. This may be because I am a singer who does not care for a bassist playing his instrument rather than playing the song. Hope you follow what I mean. I have never been passed over in an audition in many years partially because I am a excellent lead and harmony singer and have fronted the majority of the bands I have played in. Do not automatically follow the drummer as many bass players have better tempo than drummers. Push them when they need it and drag them down when they rush. The latter is of course not good advice for an audition

 

[jamro217]

Welcome to TB. Don't get down because you didn't land your first gig right away. Three months of playing isn't even scratching the surface. You've got a whole lifetime of adventures ahead of you. Good gigs, lousy gigs, gigs that show up on the joke page... Just keep playing through it and enjoy the ride. As a suggestion, try to start off with the simple tunes first. Remember the basic function of the instrument is one of foundation, slapping and wild solos are great, but playing the root on the first beat of the measure is your responsibility.

 

[Moosehead1966]

Every time you put yourself 'out there' you learn something(s), Good on you! Remember: Attempt, assess, practice..

Marc

 

[azureblue]

"I find it hard to listen to music now because I feel like I'll never be at a level where I can play bass comfortably with a band. I know practice is key"

Practice is the key, but practice on what? You just had your first real world lesson in auditioning. You didn't know the material... So you flopped -- It happens to all of us. Learn from it. It's not a reason to get discouraged but it is a reason to see what you need to do and take action.. Now you know where you fall short. Don't look at that as a barrier, but as a goal to achieve.

Points:

If you want to play in cover bands that you would like to be in, go out and find what tunes they are covering and learn them. Go out and listen to several bands and you will find that they will do some of the same songs, and those should be the first ones you should learn. What tunes did they ask you to play in the audition? Learn those. This is how you build a common core of songs- know the tunes that everyone else knows.

Then learn to sing and play - frankly, and I know this is a bit sexist, but a singing female bass player is highly employable, especially if she can sing lead - you should work hard on this... Find songs you can sing lead on, and songs you can sing background on. Start with a song with an easy bass part, and build from there. I realize that this will be difficult, but it is well worth working on...

Learn how to transpose the tunes into other keys, like a step up or down. And find out what keys you sing best in, then learn a song and transpose and sing it in your key.


One of the things in performing bands is playing sets. So, once you have learned ten or so tunes, play them one after the other, just as if you were on stage. Imagine you have an audience, and, if you flub a part, keep going - do not stop. This builds endurance and continuity. And the more you play the better you will be.

Play along with the recordings at first, then play along with a drum machine or drum loops until you are steady and solid. A steady and solid bass player will get hired over a Russian Dragon flashmaster every day. You can know your modes, scales, keys, chord substitutions, etc. but it doesn't mean a thing if you are not laying down a solid bass part. I can't emphasize this more - be solid and learn how to feel the tunes before you play them, and be confident of your groove and stay in the pocket.

 

[Kevan Campbell]

Yup, what they all said about getting a teacher is spot-on but I would also like to emphasize the importance of woodshedding by your stereo and learning bass lines BY EAR. Doing so and working with a teacher will go a long way in developing your ear to listen for theory shapes and being able to quickly pick up a song and improvise in it if necessary. I wish I'd had more teachers when I was starting out, and after playing for 17 years I'm still not great at singing lead while playing bass (though I can play bass and sing some harmonies or play guitar and sing lead, go figure) but I've been able to learn a lot of theory on my own as I grew more confident in my core abilities like grooving with the drummer, building alternate bass parts on the spot, knowing dynamics and when to lay out, etc.

An audition after three months? I applaud your courage to try knowing that the odds weren't great and truly hope that you keep that courage as you grow into an awesome bassist and start taking my gigs!

Seriously though, welcome to the family!

 

[LowEndWooly]

I haven't read through every comment, but there have been good suggestions.

One thing I'll add is to check out scottsbasslessons.com

He's out in the UK.. Probably the best online lessons you'll find. He has plenty of free stuff, but his membership classes are really superb. That's where I've learned the chord tones and forever changed my playing for the better.

 

[fearceol]

Gonna keep looking though. How many lessons do you reckon one needs to get them started?

Obviously the more the better. However IMO around six to eight would help to get you on the straight and narrow path. You might consider lessons via Skype (I think they usually work out cheaper).

In the mean time two sites worth a look are http://www.talkingbass.net/ and...

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[hrodbert696]

I agree with others - definitely don't get discouraged over not getting the gig on your very first audition after just there months learning bass. There will be plenty of future opportunities.

One thing about the whole auditioning process is that it's not just about you - it's about who else shows up, and it's about the band itself and what they feel is a good match for their style. You might have done great, but it just so happens that someone else showed up who was even better. That's all the more likely since you say it's an established band, that draws a lot more people than a startup. Or, you may have been great, but someone else was just more the kind of person they had in mind, or a known quantity who had played in other groups they know, that kind of thing.

Singing and playing are a trick on bass, you're right. There are threads on it to look at for thoughts and ideas. My advice is start with songs that have very very simple bass lines, and go from there. There are some tunes where the vocal fits in rhythmically very easily with the bass and others where it's a whole other offbeat thing that's hard to coordinate. Pay attention to that. If you haven't already, get a clear sense of your vocal range and what songs do and don't work in your range. It's worth building up a repertoire of songs you can pull it off with, that will make you a real asset to a band.

Keep learning, keep jamming, and don't get discouraged!

 

[1612]

I haven't read through every comment, but there have been good suggestions.

One thing I'll add is to check out scottsbasslessons.com

He's out in the UK.. Probably the best online lessons you'll find. He has plenty of free stuff, but his membership classes are really superb. That's where I've learned the chord tones and forever changed my playing for the better.

Yup, I have been watching his lessons from the minute I started playing! Excellent videos.

 

[Robroy]

Hey guys, just joined and I'm loving the forum! I have been playing the guitar and singing for about seven years (rhythm mostly - I am not as strong on my theory/scales as I'd like to be) and have been playing bass for about three months. I love the bass, even more than the guitar.

A well known cover band in my area were holding auditions the other day for a bass player. I knew I was not up to the level of other players auditioning but I thought it was important for me to at least try and get used to playing bass with a band and that it would be an experience. I learned 5 or 6 of the songs they asked and played them (missed a couple notes but sounded fine over all). Then they asked me about other songs which I didn't know so I just told them I hadn't learned them yet. They also asked me to sing a little which normally Im used to having sung and played guitar with a band before but I find it much more difficult to play bass and sing. I managed to soldier through it though.

The band were very nice people and I know I didn't make a total fool of myself considering how nervous I was but ever since I can't help but feel slightly discouraged. I find it hard to listen to music now because I feel like I'll never be at a level where I can play bass comfortably with a band. I know practice is key and I practice as much as I can but I suppose I'm looking for some advice on what I should focus on right now as a beginner (scales, theory etc.) and how to feel motivated rather than discouraged about my playing.

Thanks for reading this novel...

Man, that sounds like me in 1998. Someone told me that you didn't need to be all that good because bands were so desperate for bass players. So I auditioned for a band and was nowhere NEAR ready. They were a gigging classic rock band and I had, like you, a few months experience - and, truth be told, I'd never been into the music before (I was ll over Genesis, Blood Sweat and Tears, Renaissance, etc.) so my only experience was hearing it on the radio.

They were nice about it but there was one funny twist: I read a LOT and love audio gear. It means I knew gear a lot better than I knew how to play. Afterward they treated my speaker like it was some exotic and powerful orb that came to earth from another planet. My TONE blew them away. The speaker was an Acme Low B2. They had never heard anything like it.

To your question: I took lessons and it helped a LOT. I couldn't tell you much more about music theory now than I could before lessons though. I remember something called "modes". But when it comes to bass, it's mostly about training my hands, which means scales, scales, scales, and learning feel - the feel of the notes, the neck, the bass in general, and the feel of songs, rhythm, etc. What you don't use, you lose, and in the real world I've just never had a need to know all that music theory crap.

Then again, I played trombone for a few decades before I picked up the bass, so maybe I know a lot of stuff that I just take for granted. But the modes stuff was brand new to me.

 

[Robroy]

One other thing: When not playing to songs, e.g. doing lessons or learning chords, USE A METRONOME. This is not merely a suggestion. It is a requirement.

 

[fearceol]

in the real world I've just never had a need to know all that music theory crap. But the modes stuff was brand new to me.

OP : any theory you learn wont be a waste of time. Also, as far as playing the bass is concerned, I'd forget about modes for the time being. They can come later on.

 

[Robroy]

OP : any theory you learn wont be a waste of time. Also, as far as playing the bass is concerned, I'd forget about modes for the time being. They can come later on.

Yes. I agree that anything you learn won't be a waste of time. Firmly, actually. However, time is like money: Because it's limited we have to budget it. I bought a book on reading sheet music for bass. I could already read for Trombone and it IS the same clef, and technically I could read for bass, one note at a time, if you get my drift.

But the bottom line was that I dabbled in it and realized that there was just no call for it in the stuff I was doing. And I've NEVER been called upon (or even been aware of the opportunity) to do a gig where I needed to read black dots on lines. Now, if bass were my career (e.g. pursuing pit orchestra gigs) it would be different. So it really depends on one's vision and long term goals, regarding what to invest their time in.

But I do agree. Learning almost anything is a plus.

 

[lfmn16]

OP : any theory you learn wont be a waste of time. Also, as far as playing the bass is concerned, I'd forget about modes for the time being. They can come later on.

+1

I don't know anyone who actually took the time to learn theory that said it was a waste of time.

And to the OP - don't believe anyone that says they never failed an audition. No matter how good you get there is someone out there that is better. You just do your best.

 

[fearceol]

Yes. I agree that anything you learn won't be a waste of time. Firmly, actually. However, time is like money: Because it's limited we have to budget it. I bought a book on reading sheet music for bass. I could already read for Trombone and it IS the same clef, and technically I could read for bass, one note at a time, if you get my drift.

But the bottom line was that I dabbled in it and realized that there was just no call for it in the stuff I was doing. And I've NEVER been called upon (or even been aware of the opportunity) to do a gig where I needed to read black dots on lines. Now, if bass were my career (e.g. pursuing pit orchestra gigs) it would be different. So it really depends on one's vision and long term goals, regarding what to invest their time in.

But I do agree. Learning almost anything is a plus.

That's fair enough. I was merely addressing your ..."never need to know all that music theory crap..." statement. .

 

[Robroy]

That's fair enough. I was merely addressing your ..."never need to know all that music theory crap..." statement. .

My use of the word "crap" was meant to be subtlely sarcastic.

I honestly find it quite fascinating and, truth be told, like most information, the more you know, the more you enjoy both playing and listening to others play. i.e. it's DEFINITELY not crap.

 

[azureblue]

as far as theory goes, there is theory and there is Theory. You don't need to know your cambiatas and your appogiaturas, your Phrygian mode applications, or how to analyze Thelonious Monk right now, but you do need to know enough theory to be able to effectively communicate with other musicians. And that includes being able to communicate both by chord name and by chord number. IOW, a I / IV / V7 in C is the same thing as C / F / G. And you need to know standard music terms, like what's the bridge, what do they mean by "A / A / B / A" and "take it from the top of the turnaround."

What would help you is to get some band you like to let you go to one of their practices and watch and see how it is done. This, and going to other bands' gigs, are important steps towards networking - letting other players know you are available and what you can do.. And it will go a long way towards getting you comfortable with other musicians.

You'll probably work with "ear"players - the guys that don't know music, but they can pick it off a record almost as quick as it plays. Just because they don't know music doesn't make them worse or better, but you will need to know how they talk music. So it is important to know not only your bass part, but know what everyone else is playing, too.

Here is something really important: Knowing what the song is about and what the other parts are is the difference between being a musician and a player. Bass does not exist in a vacuum.

But kudos to you for being willing to stick your a** out there and go to an audition after three months of playing. That takes guts. And it speaks loudly to how much you want to play bass.