Fakes, copies, and tributes...

[Smooth_bass88]

Regarding the computer. Xerox pretty much started it all. Not only that but they also thought up the graphical interface and the mouse. Steve and Bill grabbed anything and everything that wasn't copyrighted from Xerox, IBM and each other.

Yes.

 

[Iridescentone]

But the point I was trying to make is that top quality does exist beyond the leading mass-market brands and can be found in all parts of the world. Not everything non-US or non-Fender is 'flim-flam'.

To be accurate, quality consumer merch can indeed be found "in" all parts of the world.....just not "from" all parts of the world. Large swathes of the world's population can barely produce enough food to eat, let alone any "top quality" (sic) goods to export.

While we're on the topic of cheap, fake knockoff consumer goods (guitars, if you prefer), I'm not aware of any of this thievery emanating from the USA, are you? Is anyone? Do you think that's a coincidence, or some random act of Chaos Theory?

And thank you for finally saying exactly what I suspected you were driving at all along. I know that "Fender" and "USA" are the objects of your enmity. So transparent and predictable. I understand why you avoided my earlier query about how you'd feel about accepting a cheap look-a-like faux Wal instead of the real thing. Wal, which I know is a quality piece made in UK, where presumably you reside.

To be fair, I suspect that prices for USA Fender (and other USA-made gear) in UK are considerably higher than what they are here in the States...yes? I wouldn't pay for it either, if I lived there. I'd go with domestically made gear. Oh wait......apart from a few high end boutique builders, are there any mid-priced domestic builders in UK?

 

[Iridescentone]

In theory yes, but in reality, sadly not, especially in large corporations where 'affordability' is the latest buzzword and quality standards are the first things to go - largely as victims of their own success.

But the point I was trying to make is that top quality does exist beyond the leading mass-market brands and can be found in all parts of the world. Not everything non-US or non-Fender is 'flim-flam'.

Yes, in reality. Since you've named Fender in particular, the reality is that the quality of Fender basses and amps has never been better, by all measures, including price. Domestically, anyway....which is their primary market.

Have you played thru the newer Fender bass amps and cabs? They are to die for, and you'll be hard pressed to find anyone who's played thru them to disagree. I want one myself!

 

[SteveCS]

To be accurate, quality consumer merch can indeed be found "in" all parts of the world.....just not "from" all parts of the world. Large swathes of the world's population can barely produce enough food to eat, let alone any "top quality" (sic) goods to export.

While we're on the topic of cheap, fake knockoff consumer goods (guitars, if you prefer), I'm not aware of any of this thievery emanating from the USA, are you? Is anyone? Do you think that's a coincidence, or some random act of Chaos Theory?

And thank you for finally saying exactly what I suspected you were driving at all along. I know that "Fender" and "USA" are the objects of your enmity. So transparent and predictable. I understand why you avoided my earlier query about how you'd feel about accepting a cheap look-a-like faux Wal instead of the real thing. Wal, which I know is a quality piece made in UK, where presumably you reside.

To be fair, I suspect that prices for USA Fender (and other USA-made gear) in UK are considerably higher than what they are here in the States...yes? I wouldn't pay for it either, if I lived there. I'd go with domestically made gear. Oh wait......apart from a few high end boutique builders, are there any mid-priced domestic builders in UK?

No enmity, but my 15 years experience working for a US company (one of the largest) has shown me that some parts of corporate America no longer understand quality the way they used to (in the way that helped build reputations), hence my recent decision to walk away. I also have nothing against Fender, having owned several over the years and thinking one day I will do so again. I've also owned a Wal, but sadly no more.

I have no time for fakers, theives or counterfeiters. Nor, I suspect, do you. Sorry for any misunderstanding.

 

[angst178]

How about this...
Forgery : An exact looking copy of another companies product. A deliberate attempt to con people. People that know better can be fooled as well as people that don't know much about instruments. It could be as simple as changing a Squier logo to a Fender logo. Or it could be a Chinese copy that had no connection to the real brand.

Bad Forgery : Someone trying to make a forgery but doesn't get it right. They use the logo, headstock shape and general idea of the instrument, but someone who knows exactly what they are looking for won't be fooled. Someone that doesn't know, can be. Ric copies from China fall into this category. People buy these because they like the look, or to sell them at a high enough price to make someone think they are getting a deal.

Look A Like : This one is where a company, licensed or not, uses their logo on a version of the real thing. Same headstock, same dimensions same everything except the logo. Squier, Epiphpne, 70s Ibanez Ric copies, etc. Trying to stand on their name and someone else's design. Or just a lower cost version of the major brands design. Not trying to fool anyone into thinking they are the real brand, but look the part.

Style Copy or Tribute : The company copies the general body shape that another company designed. P, J, LP, V, etc. The headstock and logo look very little like the real thing. They stand on their own name while doing something similar to another brand. Sadowsky, Lotus and most other lines fall into this area.

Original Design : Fender, Gibson, Ritter, Fodera, etc. fall here. They came up with a design that is their own.

I know this doesn't include every possibility or end any argument, but it could help standardize some terms.

This might have helped me when I bought my Bad Forgery Ric. Had I been active here when I bought it. I wasn't, but google searches gave me nothing but hate on any copy at that time. There are also very few (if any) videos on YouTube of anything other than Chinese basses. I think I might have bought a Rockinbetter instead. Or maybe a 70s Ric Look A Like. But I didn't know of any other basses with that style and I wasn't about to ask a question in the threads I had seen. Mine has since been transformed into a Look A Like, but if I ever sold it (which I don't ever plan to do) or if it's stolen, it could be transformed back easily. Plus it needed a lot of work to be a good instrument.

I want to help others not make the choice I did. Either by being scammed or just making a bad choice. I don't recommend a Bad Forgery since there are other options available.

Maybe we need some kind of sticky in the basses section that show legit places to buy basses that have the style people want, but doesn't help scammers. Kind of like the "Good Bass for Metal" thread.

 

[Bigbri]

To me a fake is something that isn't what it says it is--so if it says "Fender", for example, on the headstock, but it isn't a Fender--then it's a fake.
If it's their own brand name--then it's not a fake.
If it looks like a Fender & says "Ibanez" and is--it's a copy, if it isn't an Ibanez--it's still a fake.

There's a ton of necks etc...out there with no name on them that are "licensed by fender." I think the mighty mite stuff is a line of these. I wouldn't buy one either, but they are cheap and called Fender.