Double Bass Favorite bass transport wheels??

[Mgaisbacher]

I am in the process of buying a new bass and the endpin is different than my current bass, which for the time being I plan on keeping.I could get an adapter for my current wheel (got it form upton about 4 years ago) but then I couldn't use it on my current bass without unbolting it to switch back and forth, so I'm considering just having a different wheel for the new bass.

The only thing is 80% of the time I use a wheel anymore is after i fly somewhere for gigs and usually just throw it in my carry on bag, so ideally I am looking for something light weight. No matter what it seems I'm going to have to buy an adapter since no 14mm carbon shafts seem to be available on any wheels at the moment.

Any opinions on the best wheels out there. Have been looking at the new harmony one, the foam in a rubber wheel seems nice.

Also a buggy is a no go, If I still lived somewhere where I used public transit regularly I think they are the best way, but i need something small that I can take with me when flying.

 

[Mark Gollihur]

No matter what it seems I'm going to have to buy an adapter since no 14mm carbon shafts seem to be available on any wheels at the moment.

If you have a carbon fiber endpin, you might have trouble using an endpin wheel. Take a look at how the mechanism for securing the endpin at any given position works; it likely differs from a steel endpin's simple thumbscrew, which just screws against the endpin, holding it in place. With CF endpins, this type of arrangement will likely split the fibers in the CF, eventually causing severe damage and potential failure.

The CF endpins I've seen instead use a collar that wraps around the endpin, and when you tighten it, the threads PULL the collar around the endpin and against the body of the endpin plug, holding it in place.

If yours is like that, here's why it's a problem - it will HOLD the endpin wheel, but unlike the simple thumbscrew version, it will not screw against a flat portion of the wheel's shaft; and therefore it will not protect you from a sudden, unexpected TURNING of the wheel, and subsequent catastrophic crash and burn.

 

[Mgaisbacher]

Thanks for the reply Mark! It’s actually the collet style endpin that I think is a little more secure against turning side to side than the mechanism you are describing, I know a few people who have these end pins with wheels with seemingly no issues!

My current wheel and the end pin in my old bass is steel with a flat spot where the thumb screw meets.

 

[robobass]

it will not screw against a flat portion of the wheel's shaft; and therefore it will not protect you from a sudden, unexpected TURNING of the wheel, and subsequent catastrophic crash and burn.

This wheel looks good to me:
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Don't know if you can get it in the US.

Mark, You're right that you don't want it to turn. Why then do all modern wheels have the pin pointed straight at the axle? I feel like I've seen some where the axle center is offset, like a bicycle front wheel, so that the wheel finds it's own equilibrium, and a tight fit in the socket is less important.

 

[Ed Fuqua]

I'm using the Gaines I've had for awhile, I don't mind switching out the shafts since I'm only playing the Kriegel these days (poor, neglected Mittenwald bass). On the German bass, I've had the Goetz fail and had the wobbly wheel stop me, but without any "catastrophic crash and burn". Mike Weatherly ended up tapping the Goetz for a second thumbscrew which took care of that problem.
The replacement shafts for the Gaines don't come in the correct size, so I bought the closest larger size and Sprocket at Gage's milled it down to size. You do need to tighten the collar screw down so the collar closes a little tighter on the wheel shaft than the endpin shaft. But I've been pushing the bass around NYC for a week or so now with zero issues.

As far as weight, is the Onyx wheel lighter than the Gaines? Looks like it should be. Oh or maybe check out the Gaines "city" wheel, it's much smaller than the regular one.

 

[Mark Gollihur]

This wheel looks good to me:
Invalid Link Removed
Don't know if you can get it in the US.

Mark, You're right that you don't want it to turn. Why then do all modern wheels have the pin pointed straight at the axle? I feel like I've seen some where the axle center is offset, like a bicycle front wheel, so that the wheel finds it's own equilibrium, and a tight fit in the socket is less important.

On all the wheels we sell, you can adjust the orientation of the shaft to accommodate your preference for where the flat spot is. You just loosen the shaft, and move the adjusting nuts to change the orientation.

 

[Don Kasper]

I prefer this 2-wheel design, stability-wise :

 

[Don Hergert]

That's very nice. It looks functionally very competitive with a number of bass kart or buggy type of arrangements, yet much more portable. And judging by the tires it looks like it can handle high grass, sand, gravel and other rough terrain.

Don, did you design this yourself?

 

[Don Kasper]

That's very nice. It looks functionally very competitive with a number of bass kart or buggy type of arrangements, yet much more portable. And judging by the tires it looks like it can handle high grass, sand, gravel and other rough terrain.

Don, did you design this yourself?

Thanks!
Full Disclosure:
I stole this design from an LA Bassist (Tim Barr), who designed and sold these for a while in the 80's. I reproduced his basic PVC pipe design - I tried using pneumatic tires, but they were not durable enough, so I switched to the current version - these are solid rubber, with just a bit of bounce.(They are Xtra Large RC Model Airplane Tires!). There are ball-bearings supporting the axle.
It is fairly stable compared to the 1 wheel designs, (I added a dimple on the shaft to accept the endpin screw), and is impervious to sharp objects. I've not tried it on gravel, but it handles grass fairly well.
Thanks for your interest.

 

[Don Hergert]

Very nice. Please let me know when I can place an order!!!

(Seriously, if ever it is worth your time, it is worth my money!!!)

(And yes, I'm becoming somewhat of a kart-gear junkie.)

 

[Ed Fuqua]

Thanks!
Full Disclosure:
I stole this design from an LA Bassist (Tim Barr), who designed and sold these for a while in the 80's. I reproduced his basic PVC pipe design - I tried using pneumatic tires, but they were not durable enough, so I switched to the current version - these are solid rubber, with just a bit of bounce.(They are Xtra Large RC Model Airplane Tires!). There are ball-bearings supporting the axle.
It is fairly stable compared to the 1 wheel designs, (I added a dimple on the shaft to accept the endpin screw), and is impervious to sharp objects. I've not tried it on gravel, but it handles grass fairly well.
Thanks for your interest.

Hi Don, can you expound on "stable", I'm not sure what you mean in this context. My other question is - how nimble/maneuverable is compared to a single wheel?

 

[Don Kasper]

Hi Ed,
"Stable" being a wider footprint than a single wheel - think "skateboard vs. unicycle". (?)
As far as nimble....a single wheel probably has a tighter turning radius, but I haven't been limited by mine. I don't use public transportation, so I'm not sure if a single wheel is significantly better in those environments.
YMMV - (see what I did there?)
Thanks.

 

[Ed Fuqua]

Your Mother May Vacuum? Yachts Moored Must Vacate? You Must Move Vehicle?

So stable as in easier to balance as opposed to stable as in will stand more or less by itself?
It's not so much public transportation as it is moving through the thronging masses on sidewalks. Probably a little easier taking one wheel over uneven sidewalks as well, that was always an issue with the cart. Although those wheels are much closer together than a cart or buggy.
Nice idea.

 

[Don Kasper]

Your Mother May Vacuum? Yachts Moored Must Vacate? You Must Move Vehicle?

So stable as in easier to balance as opposed to stable as in will stand more or less by itself?
It's not so much public transportation as it is moving through the thronging masses on sidewalks. Probably a little easier taking one wheel over uneven sidewalks as well, that was always an issue with the cart. Although those wheels are much closer together than a cart or buggy.
Nice idea.

Yes...easier to balance, I would guess.(It will NOT stand by itself...FYI - there is no braking or locking mechanism.)
Yeah, Tim Barr (the designer), is a member of the LA Phil..., so, he ain't no dummy.
Thanks for your interest.

 

[robobass]

I used to scavenge abandoned baby strollers and attach rods to the wheels and sell them to my colleagues at Mannes. Some of them were well built and perfect for the job. Usually two 4" or 5" soft but solid wheels mounted on an assembly with a built in shock, and had the offset I described before to keep them going in the direction you pointed even without a flat on the pin.

 

[robobass]

On all the wheels we sell, you can adjust the orientation of the shaft to accommodate your preference for where the flat spot is. You just loosen the shaft, and move the adjusting nuts to change the orientation.

Mark, That wasn't the point I was making. What I am saying is that if the axle is offset from the centerline of the shaft, then the wheel should follow in the direction in which it is pushed, and not need to be forced, or rely upon the thumbscrew to stay straight. Most caster wheels employ this feature. I think it would be very useful for bass wheels as well. l find the typical thumb-screw design in most endpin sockets rather poor, and especially failure-prone when using a straight wheel.

 

[ctrlzjones]

Mark, That wasn't the point I was making. What I am saying is that if the axle is offset from the centerline of the shaft, then the wheel should follow in the direction in which it is pushed, and not need to be forced, or rely upon the thumbscrew to stay straight. Most caster wheels employ this feature. I think it would be very useful for bass wheels as well. l find the typical thumb-screw design in most endpin sockets rather poor, and especially failure-prone when using a straight wheel.
View attachment 3466912

Just saying, so people reading this don't get ideas: whatever you do, don't use wheels with hard rubber for hard surfaces (streets, sidewalks, concrete). The bad vibrations can make the endblock to become loose over the time... I'm still embarrased not taking this into account, it"s so obvious ...

 

[Mark Gollihur]

Mark, That wasn't the point I was making. What I am saying is that if the axle is offset from the centerline of the shaft, then the wheel should follow in the direction in which it is pushed, and not need to be forced, or rely upon the thumbscrew to stay straight. Most caster wheels employ this feature. I think it would be very useful for bass wheels as well. l find the typical thumb-screw design in most endpin sockets rather poor, and especially failure-prone when using a straight wheel.
View attachment 3466912

One has to wonder, then, why all the commercially-available wheels are, indeed, straight. Your solution seems logical, and you'd think the wheels - like casters - would have evolved by now to incorporate an offset design. What do you think the holdup is?

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

One has to wonder, then, why all the commercially-available wheels are, indeed, straight. Your solution seems logical, and you'd think the wheels - like casters - would have evolved by now to incorporate an offset design. What do you think the holdup is?

I can't find the post, but @Groove Doctor had a theory about caster type wheels going berserk when at a certain angle and claimed they worked best when horizontal. He referenced a bike blog by way of illuminating his point. Curious if that same idea might be why bass wheel manufacturers don't do this.

 

[Mark Gollihur]

I can't find the post, but @Groove Doctor had a theory about caster type wheels going berserk when at a certain angle and claimed they worked best when horizontal. He referenced a bike blog by way of illuminating his point. Curious if that same idea might be why bass wheel manufacturers don't do this.

That makes sense - I wasn't thinking about a caster, though, that would be almost totally uncontrollable when pushing a bass. I would think something more akin to a bicycle fork - with just enough "angle" to keep it from rotating from the mild torsional stress of pushing a bass on a single wheel.