Fearful Cabs and Comb Filtering: Should I Mirror Baffles?

[Wasnex]

I’m just genuinely curious.

You need a different type of curiosity to appreciate this thread. It's the sort of thing you have naturally or don't. Obviously you don't have it, so perhaps you should simply stop worrying about it and move on.

Beyond that, I am sure there are things you enjoy doing that some of us would find mysterious and/or confounding. People are funny like that. IMHO as long as your not hurting anyone, Vive Le Difference.

And that’s where your ears should be the final judge. Even if on paper it tells you it shouldn’t.

Your not the only one who has said something along these lines:

You could stack the top cabinet with the midrange high (which is where I would prefer it) and the lower cab with the midrange turned off and avoid the whole scenario. Of course you have the option to try it mirrored as well and see what works better.

If you build the mirrored set, I suggest trying it both ways and deciding for yourself.

 

[Balog]

I’m over here wondering in what band and/or gig situation does being this deep in the absolute fine details are you playing?

I completely understand working out these details, but at what point are you “listening with your eyes” (meaning what’s it look like on paper) and not your ears to determine what actually sounds good?

I’m not trying to be snarky. I’m just genuinely curious.
I’ve owned some ridiculously nice boutique gear, and never once did anyone, let alone other bass players ever say “you know, if you lined up the baffles you’d…” or “ya know there’s some serious comb filtering going on….”.
It either sounds good or it doesn’t. And that’s where your ears should be the final judge. Even if on paper it tells you it shouldn’t.

A while back I was trying to help a guy who only had studio mixing experience do live sound. The hardest thing for him was accepting that the limitations of the overall situation made some of the extreme fine tuning minutiae he had learned in a studio environment either impractical or actively counter productive. Spending 20 minutes messing around fine tuning the compressor on the snare might result in an (imperceptible to anyone not soloing the channel on good headphones) improvement, but it'll also make the performance sound bad because you can't listen and balance the overall mix while doing that. I think some of this type of deep diving into the technical aspects of a cab (which lord knows I've spent many hours doing myself) can be sort of similar, however since it's not something you're trying to do during an actual performance it doesn't hurt anything.

And honestly, in my experience, the biggest limiting factor tends to be player ability not gear. So if someone plays more freely and confidently because they spent a bunch of time optimizing a relatively imperceptible advantage into their rig, then it'll still have a huge impact on the performance.

 

[crazycloud]

My last Fearful was two 15Subs and a 2x6 headcase. Best sounding cabs I've ever heard, and the mids blew my head off (in the most positive way possible).

This is a much better arrangement. My old JBL 2226 cabs were modular like this with a 'head box' including a JBL2118 and JBL flare (model # slips my mind ATM but looks like the one in the horn box below) and a 2408. The crossover was designed so that I could have 1 or 2 15s and flick the switch to adjust levels.

Like so, I meant landscape not portrait (now edited above):

View attachment 7434243

The mid horn is a JBL replacement part for PRX cabs, I still have a spare one. Pretty big PITA to build with though, I had to fabricate a pretty janky mounting solution. I always ended up just using one of the 115 cabs, the BMS drivers are rated at 600VRMS each and the cabs are 3/4” Europly, so quite heavy. My favorite cabs ever though, if I didn’t have to carry them.

Out of your options I’d probably prefer B, but I like your old headcase format better. I sometimes used these two top boxes rotated and stacked on the two fifteens as pictured above, biamped. It got loud!

View attachment 7434257

I have one of the JBL prx midhorns in my storage, I think (there's a lot of components and drivers in there. Might have to get the driver and add it to the next build.

 

[Passinwind]

I have one of the JBL prx midhorns in my storage, I think (there's a lot of components and drivers in there. Might have to get the driver and add it to the next build.

Neither @greenboy or I had much love for it after our first attempts, and I was thinking about using mine as a mold for a $$$ carbon fiber build. But I decided to try applying constrained layer damping on the back first, something similar to Dynamat. That made a very noticeable difference, and I suspect that the right poured hard foam would probably work fine as well, maybe with less of a weight hit.

 

[Passinwind]

I’m over here wondering in what band and/or gig situation does being this deep in the absolute fine details are you playing?

I completely understand working out these details, but at what point are you “listening with your eyes” (meaning what’s it look like on paper) and not your ears to determine what actually sounds good?

As I'm sure you well know, we pretty much all hear with our eyes on some level and the music business and/or hobby world is full of OCD people. But what's at play in this thread is not "what sounds good", it's "how can we make it sound better." IMO that's something we should all aspire to in every aspect of our business and life, but if not that, certainly in DIY gear building. Otherwise, why bother? And not all of us are in bands or gigging anymore, or maybe ever were.

 

[agedhorse]

I find that when getting down to this level, "how to make it sound better" becomes more influenced by additional practice than changes in the technology.

 

[Passinwind]

I find that when getting down to this level, "how to make it sound better" becomes more influenced by additional practice than changes in the technology.

But, but…CheatGP said I wouldn’t have to do the math if I bought The New Thing.

 

[fu22ba55]

I find that when getting down to this level, "how to make it sound better" becomes more influenced by additional practice than changes in the technology.

Considering I once wired up my pair of EV TL606s out of phase with each other, and played about three practices before realizing what was wrong... my primary motivation for this thread is "how do I avoid making it sound bad."

If there's something simple I can do to reduce the margin of error, I'm all for it.

My playing won't get any better, but everyone will be able to hear my mediocre playing much better!

 

[6thplanet]

The ol 9V battery test is the easiest way to check polarity. Pretty simple with 1/4" jacks, you'll have to get a bit creative with SpeakOns.

 

[Mike Caldwell]

A while back I was trying to help a guy who only had studio mixing experience do live sound. The hardest thing for him was accepting that the limitations of the overall situation made some of the extreme fine tuning minutiae he had learned in a studio environment either impractical or actively counter productive. Spending 20 minutes messing around fine tuning the compressor on the snare might result in an (imperceptible to anyone not soloing the channel on good headphones) improvement, but it'll also make the performance sound bad because you can't listen and balance the overall mix while doing that. I think some of this type of deep diving into the technical aspects of a cab (which lord knows I've spent many hours doing myself) can be sort of similar, however since it's not something you're trying to do during an actual performance it doesn't hurt anything.

And honestly, in my experience, the biggest limiting factor tends to be player ability not gear. So if someone plays more freely and confidently because they spent a bunch of time optimizing a relatively imperceptible advantage into their rig, then it'll still have a huge impact on the performance.

I have heard / seen that happen all too often, they start focusing on one little thing in the mix while everything else goes right past them and it's not always people who work in a studio setting.

 

[Balog]

I have heard / seen that happen all too often, they start focusing on one little thing in the mix while everything else goes right past them and it's not always people who work in a studio setting.

I think one of the big advantages I had starting out was learning in crappy rooms where you had to fight just to get it to acceptable. No time for lily gilding.

 

[Mike Caldwell]

I think one of the big advantages I had starting out was learning in crappy rooms where you had to fight just to get it to acceptable. No time for lily gilding.

I'll add starting out with not so great equipment but knowing how to make it work best as possible and maybe then some as well as knowing how to keep it working!!!