I played through my father-in-law's Band Master a few times (w/ bass cab) and it sounded great
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Fender Bassman Blackface
- Thread starter Crazyeelboy
- Start date
I believe as long as you don't take any shoe polish to your "silverface" you're probably in the clear
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
I don't think there ever was an attempt to compare it to wearing blackface makeup. I always took it as an alternative to silverface.
I had a 1966 blackface Fender Bassman amp that I bought new in 1966 ($449 new). It was a 50-watt tube amp and was the last year of the blackface Fenders. Back then it was the "cat's meow!" Looked good, sounded good, and was plenty loud.
All of the 212 cab blackface Fender Bassmans before 1966 had a smaller cab with the tilt legs. The cab was supposed to sit horizontally and you could use the tilt back legs to tilt it back. However, most people would stand the cab up vertically when performing and put the amp head on top of the cab. It just looked more impressive. The head hung over the sides of the vertical cab a bit, giving it a little of a "T" shape.
So in 1966 Fender came out with the larger cab to accommodate the vertical stacking, but kept the same two 12" Jensen speakers in it that came with the earlier models. Was a BAD choice. Looks like they just took the Dual Showman 215 cab and filled it with two 12" Jensen speakers. I blew 3 speakers out of that cab before I replaced the amp. In 1967 (first year of the silver-face) they put two 15" speakers in that cab instead of the 12" speakers and that solved the blown speaker problems. You could also get the JBL D140F's in it if you liked. Unfortunately that was the first year of the silverface Fenders and they just didn't sound as good as the blackface.
While I was touring with a nightclub group back in the early 70's, we were playing 5-nights a week, 50-weeks a year. Everything was going fine until our guitar player and our keys player both bought Vox Super Beatle amps (125-watts) when Thomas Organ closed them out (71 or 72, not sure which). All of a sudden I was getting drowned out. I was running my amp at 7 (2 o'clock on current amps) and I was being told to turn up. If I fudged it above 7, then it distorted, which I knew would blow another speaker. And about that time the amp started making noises that would go away if I tapped the top of the amp.So I was not happy. Come to find out that was just a bad tube that had gone microphonic, but I didn't know that then.
We were playing the Little Bohemian Club (Little Bo's) in Lincoln Nebraska at the time and I decided to get a Dual Showman. It had more power and bigger speakers and I thought that was what I needed. Went to Hospe music and they had just sold their last Dual Showman two days earlier. They checked with their store in Omaha, NE and they didn't have one either. So they showed me just about everything they had and I was not impressed even though they had a complete bassment full of bass amps. A lot of it looked impressive but wasn't loud enough and didn't sound good enough. I was thoroughly disapponted.
Was ready to leave and the guy pointed me towards a Standel amp he had against the back wall. It was a fairly small amp compared to what he had along the walls, and didn't really look impressive. Said he could give me a really good deal on it because it was last year's model and the front cover of the head had a snag on it. It was a piggy-back amp with powered speakers. It was a 215 cab with 4 vertical round ports and the cab was twice as deep as my Bassman. Salesman said that was so it could play loudly without distorting. All the energy coming out the back of the speakers was sonically re-directed and came out the ports instead of bouncing off the back wall and hitting the speaker again.
So I plugged my bass into it, turned it up to 5 (12 o'clock) and hit a low E to both see how loud it was and if it would distort on that low E. Well it was clear as a bell and just about shook everything off the walls. Was crazy loud and sounded great. He gave me $400 for my blackface '66 Bassman and I added another $450 to that to purchase it. Was never able to run that amp above #3 (9 o'clock) indoors. Could run it at #5 on the dial (12 o'clock) outdoors. I no longer had any trouble being heard. Was more often told to turn down. Was a great amp (MCIIB with SAM30B cab). I toured with it until the end of 1973 and used it on weekend gigs until it was stolen in 1976.
From my experience, I'll say that the blackface Fender 1966 and earlier Bassmans sound a little better and different that the silverface versions to me. They do NOT have enough power to compete with any 100-watt guitarist/keys players. If you get the 1966 Bassman with the nice large cabinet, you will need to modify it and put 15" speakers in it. If you can find any JBL D140F's those are the best choice. Otherwise check with Eminence speakers to find the closest match because that was a good sound.
If you are only using it on-stage as a personal monitor and you can stand close enough to hear it above guitars and keys, that might work. But you can expect to get lost in the mix at medium to large clubs if you are using it without sound reinforcement (FOH). We didn't have FOH options back in the early 70's. We had PA columns that were used for voices only.
If you want to play with an old Fender Bassman, just be sure you have a rig that will give you a LOT more power for the larger medium-sized to large clubs. Don't expect it to be your only rig that will work everywhere or you will be badly disappointed.
Hope this helps.
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Just a couple of things, black faced Fender bassman's were made until the middle of 1967 and the larger bassman cabs with the 12"s were still smaller than the dual showman cabs but were a lot larger than the earlier ones you're talking about. The early bassman circuit was carried over until the end of 67 I believe, my drip edge 67 silverface Bassman has it and it sounds good with the larger 212 cab (stock with the 12"s). I used to play with a guy who owned a Super Beatle those thing were really loud, 120 watts RMS, I used to use it for bass and it sounded good and clear. Great story.
Those blackface bandmasters have a beautiful tone for guitar, I played bass through them a few times and blew the 12" speakers in both, the other guys told me to get my own amp
, they sounded really good though with the large 212 Bandmaster cabs fr bass just the speakers wouldn't hold out.
I bet those Jensen's sounded good... for a minute. There was no way I was going to play through that cab at any volume, it's a family relic. Played by Crosby when the Byrds came to town and his amp took a poo.Those blackface bandmasters have a beautiful tone for guitar, I played bass through them a few times and blew the 12" speakers in both, the other guys told me to get my own amp
The best rock sound I ever got (well actually, it was more of a punk band) was one tour where I used the opening band's 100w Bassman through an SVT fridge. Sounded incredible. Some big stages but plenty loud as it was mic'd and going to FOH and to the monitors. Heck, it was actually quite loud come to think of it.
Per this article, Invalid Link Removed , CBS pretty much immediately started messing with the Bassman in 1965.
That cab was big. I didn't have a Showman cab to compare it to and I "presumed". Glad it wasn't any bigger. I was driving a '69 VW at the time. I would strap down the back seat and tighten it as flat as I could get it; move the front seats all the way up. Then I would slide the cabinet in and flop it down in the back. It just fit and took up the whole back. Any larger and I would have been done.
When I packed up to leave Little Bo's with my new Standel amp, I was really worried it wouldn't fit in my car because it was so deep. To fit it in the back of my VW, I not only had to to move the seats all the way up, I also had to tilt them forward and rest the bottom side of the cab up a ways on the back of the front seats as I slid it in. Then I flopped it over like I had with my bassman. Actually had more room around the edges but just about couldn't slide it in because it was so deep.
There was an exhaustive history of the bassman online and I think it said they changed the circuits in mid-67. The earliest silverface with the old wiring had vertical lines between the channels, inputs, and EQ sections. That was really early in '67 and there weren't a lot of those made. You actually have to check the paper chart in the head for some number to figure out which wiring your silvervace had in '67.
If you have that larger 212 cab, and you have the same circuit as my 1966 did, play it with the volume knob above 7 and you'll hear it distort. If you play it above 7 with it distorting, and you have the original Jensen 12" speakers, you will blow them. I did it three times before I decided that was enough.
I think it's a great sounding amp, just not enough power for modern gig use as an "only" rig. Great for recording though and anywhere you can use FOH if you have your own monitor so you can hear yourself. I grew up in a small town - Santa Maria, CA, and was in high school when I bought mine. I was the toast of the local musicians there when I got it because I had the first one in town and it looked so much bigger than previous Bassmans. And it was plenty loud for the amps that were in use at the time.
Wow, never thought of using a Vox Super Beatle for bass. I presumed it would ruin the speakers. And YES, those suckers were really loud. Then I got my Standel and it was really louder...by a lot.
OK, can't resist...here's a shot of me in ~1972 with my '65 Jazz and my Standel behind me next to the guitarist's Super Beatle that made me buy it:
Pardon my ignorance but were there many bass specific cabs being produced in the early and mid '60s?Sounded great until the voice coils started rubbing
Mine has the same circuit as the later blackface heads, it is a CBS circuit though but it sounds good.:
"Early "Drip-Edge" Silverface Bassmen used the same AB165 circuitry as the previous Blackface versions.
Fender Bassman - Wikipedia
Yeah, mine has the lines that's how I know it's a 67 and the matching cab is a large 2 x 12" cab, the original speakers are gone unfortunately, it has Eminence in it now and sounds good. I very rarely bring it out of the house but it doesn't seem to like to go above 5 or 6, my bass put out a lot of juice so it's probably the same. I never had a problem with the Vox using a bass of course I didn't use it all the time but when I did it sounded good. I've never tried a Standell but heard they were good amps. Cool photos still have the bass?
Ampegs B-15's and Fender Bassmans were the most popular amps for bass back then, Dual Showman's later on although they were really a guitar amp, first one as made for Dick Dale I think. Acoustic 360's were the first really big loud bass amps that I knew of although Standell's were pretty good I guess (I never tried one, I think they were more a West Coast thing), came out sometime during the late 60's, then SVT's came along 69-70 and everyone started using them, those were a revolution when they first came out.
