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Fender Player P Mod - What's Needed to Bring It Up to Am Std Standards Electronically?
- Thread starter EdO.
- Start date
Why try to hit American Standard / Pro specs when you can exceed them? You need these:Title says it all, basically. It's a 2022 issue MIM Player P, solid instrument structurally with a great easy-to-play, low action neck but the tone I get seems a bit too "flabby" and not fully defined, if that makes any sense. I'm not quite getting the solid punch and definition I think I'm looking for so I know I probably need to replace the pickup at a minimum, so while doing that I'd likely go ahead and upgrade the other electronics (pots, wiring?) in it as well. Really not even sure that matching it up to Am Std specs electronically is the direction I should even be going but seems like a reasonable direction to shoot for?
FWIW the band I bought it for and use it in exclusively (tribute to a very well known 60's act so it's as much a prop as it is an instrument) is silent stage/IEM's if that matters. I run through an HX Stomp and I've gone through all of the available pre-amp/amp/cab options and I just can't seem to quite get to the tone I'm hearing in my head. Yeah it could be something to do with all of that, however... I'm comparing it to my Sadowski MetroExpress PJ which gets me there tonally through the exact same setup. Unfair comparison I know (Fender passive versus active Sadowski electronics) but that's where I'm at with it. I will say that I'm not the type to buy something and mod it just for's and grins and I bought this one brand new in 2022 so this isn't something I've just come to without giving it a thorough going over. Ideas and suggestions sincerely appreciated.
View attachment 7461520
GZR P
EMG along with legendary artist Geezer Butler have collaborated to develop the GZR-P and GZR-PJ signature bass pickup sets. The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame bass player started working with EMG founder Rob Turner in 2011, looking to recreate the classic bass tones he had in Black Sabbath’s early...
I replaced the stock V Mod II pickups in my Am Pro II P with the EMG Geezer Butler pickups and they sound way better! There's more tonal balance as opposed to just dominant low mids.
Or you can sell your bass and save up for another Sadowsky if you really like it better.
I'd say you're barking up the wrong tree expecting any passive bass to sound like an active bass, especially one with a Sadowsky preamp.
As mentioned above, if you have to have the Sadowsky active sound, get the Sadowsky preamp. Recomend the pedal version to use with any bass. Mod if you must, but I'd think throwing money at new pickups, pots, caps, etc. is a waste of time and money in your case. Good luck.
Changing the pots, wires, jack, caps will not change the sound. You might change them for other reasons like pots with more consistent sweep or a jack that is more durable if your keeps bending and making a loose connection, but they won’t sound different.
Changing pickups or strings is your ticket.
Changing pickups or strings is your ticket.
The Sadowsky preamp pedal manual says it boosts at 40Hz and 4kHz. Since you've already got an HX Stomp, you could try adding an EQ block (either Low/High Shelf or Parametric) at the start of the chain to boost those frequencies and see if that gets you closer to the sound you want.
The three PV pickups are fun. Each one has a slightly different voice. It depends on what you are going for. I hear a lot of folk like the 63 as it is still vintage but a little more aggressive than the 60 or 62s.
Shielding is a recent "invention". Many vintage reissues are also not shielded. It's period correct and super dumb. My Vintera II was unusable before I shielded it.
Boutique caps are the biggest scam in the guitar industry. Just get any cheap cap of the right value.To be fair to the pickup, it is worth upgrading the Jin Sung pots and ceramic tone cap to SOMETHING that is closer to a "standard" electronics harness. Using that as a starting point will give you a better idea of what the pickup is capable of and you can consider upgrades from there. CTS and Bourns are good choices and an orange drop or boutique cap will get you in the zone. The EMG GZR and the Fralin P could be great starting points and perhaps starting with the sadowsky preamp might get you closer as well. Good luck and let us know what you decide.
I've been using a USA 2010 Precision V since I bought it new back then and (besides the PG) the only change I've made is from DR Low-Rider Nickels to Ernie Ball Cobalt Flats and I love them and the bas really is alive in a much more percussive and tonal way.
I always thought flats would diminish the sound but it's been the exact opposite.
I always thought flats would diminish the sound but it's been the exact opposite.
Highly appreciative of all of the input and suggestions. A bit more background FWIW.
I do use steel roundwounds (currently DR FatBeams) on this bass and I've also used Dunlop Standard Nickle so yeah, strings may be a great starting point. So something like High Beams or similar may a direction to go. I've tried flats as well but they just seem to make things generally even less defined, never been much of a fan of flats anyway.
The suggestion to just get a Sadowski preamp is certainly a valid suggestion and one I've certainly considered previously. Really not wanting to add anything outboard of my Stomp if I can avoid it and I'm not above trying it as a last gasp option, but I'm not convinced at this point that I really need to go there just yet. My SME PJ gets me to a place tonally similar to the Player BUT with that extra definition in attack and presence (punch if you will) that the Player just seems short of. Last night I played the first set with it in the tribute band, discussed this with our (very experienced) sound guy (who's also a semi retired drummer, for whatever that's worth), played the second set with the SME PJ and he says he didn't notice much if any difference and said it didn't require any additional tweaking on his part so yeah, I may well just be getting inside my own head too much about it. But yeah, I'm thinking brighter steel roundwounds, something with more natural high mid's is the next logical thing to try.
Again my sincere thanks for all of the input and suggestions. Anything else anyone wants to add please do.
I do use steel roundwounds (currently DR FatBeams) on this bass and I've also used Dunlop Standard Nickle so yeah, strings may be a great starting point. So something like High Beams or similar may a direction to go. I've tried flats as well but they just seem to make things generally even less defined, never been much of a fan of flats anyway.
The suggestion to just get a Sadowski preamp is certainly a valid suggestion and one I've certainly considered previously. Really not wanting to add anything outboard of my Stomp if I can avoid it and I'm not above trying it as a last gasp option, but I'm not convinced at this point that I really need to go there just yet. My SME PJ gets me to a place tonally similar to the Player BUT with that extra definition in attack and presence (punch if you will) that the Player just seems short of. Last night I played the first set with it in the tribute band, discussed this with our (very experienced) sound guy (who's also a semi retired drummer, for whatever that's worth), played the second set with the SME PJ and he says he didn't notice much if any difference and said it didn't require any additional tweaking on his part so yeah, I may well just be getting inside my own head too much about it. But yeah, I'm thinking brighter steel roundwounds, something with more natural high mid's is the next logical thing to try.
Looked but couldn't fine it. Link please?
One of the things I don't know much of anything about is what creates the differences between the pickup in the Player and the Am Std pickup i.e., or the differences in pickups one to the other generally for that matter, which is at least part of why I basically never just change out pickups just for the sake of experimentation. Admittedly not too savvy on what makes different pickups actually sound/behave differently so some education on my part would probably be helpful. When (if ever) I get the time to dig into it more...
I have two now, a SME J/J and the afore mentioned SME P/J so don't think I need anything else. Again the Player was bought primarily for stage appearance appropriate to the tribute thing, so in other words it's function for this band is as much as a prop as anything else. It's definitely a quality instrument and it's not going anywhere, however I'm honestly not much of a P bass kind of player generally. The two Sadow's are my usual go-to's and get the most playing time of anything else I own.Why try to hit American Standard / Pro specs when you can exceed them? You need these:
GZR P
EMG along with legendary artist Geezer Butler have collaborated to develop the GZR-P and GZR-PJ signature bass pickup sets. The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame bass player started working with EMG founder Rob Turner in 2011, looking to recreate the classic bass tones he had in Black Sabbath’s early...www.emgpickups.com
I replaced the stock V Mod II pickups in my Am Pro II P with the EMG Geezer Butler pickups and they sound way better! There's more tonal balance as opposed to just dominant low mids.
Or you can sell your bass and save up for another Sadowsky if you really like it better.
Again my sincere thanks for all of the input and suggestions. Anything else anyone wants to add please do.
Golden Age Pre-wired Harness for P-Bass - StewMacHighly appreciative of all of the input and suggestions. A bit more background FWIW.
I do use steel roundwounds (currently DR FatBeams) on this bass and I've also used Dunlop Standard Nickle so yeah, strings may be a great starting point. So something like High Beams or similar may a direction to go. I've tried flats as well but they just seem to make things generally even less defined, never been much of a fan of flats anyway.
The suggestion to just get a Sadowski preamp is certainly a valid suggestion and one I've certainly considered previously. Really not wanting to add anything outboard of my Stomp if I can avoid it and I'm not above trying it as a last gasp option, but I'm not convinced at this point that I really need to go there just yet. My SME PJ gets me to a place tonally similar to the Player BUT with that extra definition in attack and presence (punch if you will) that the Player just seems short of. Last night I played the first set with it in the tribute band, discussed this with our (very experienced) sound guy (who's also a semi retired drummer, for whatever that's worth), played the second set with the SME PJ and he says he didn't notice much if any difference and said it didn't require any additional tweaking on his part so yeah, I may well just be getting inside my own head too much about it. But yeah, I'm thinking brighter steel roundwounds, something with more natural high mid's is the next logical thing to try.
Looked but couldn't fine it. Link please?
One of the things I don't know much of anything about is what creates the differences between the pickup in the Player and the Am Std pickup i.e., or the differences in pickups one to the other generally for that matter, which is at least part of why I basically never just change out pickups just for the sake of experimentation. Admittedly not too savvy on what makes different pickups actually sound/behave differently so some education on my part would probably be helpful. When (if ever) I get the time to dig into it more...
I have two now, a SME J/J and the afore mentioned SME P/J so don't think I need anything else. Again the Player was bought primarily for stage appearance appropriate to the tribute thing, so in other words it's function for this band is as much as a prop as anything else. It's definitely a quality instrument and it's not going anywhere, however I'm honestly not much of a P bass kind of player generally. The two Sadow's are my usual go-to's and get the most playing time of anything else I own.
Again my sincere thanks for all of the input and suggestions. Anything else anyone wants to add please do.
https://www.stewmac.com/kits-and-projects/electronic-kits/wiring-kits/golden-age-pre-wired-harness-for-p-bass
Can also buy the kit with or without the template.
Word of warning - make sure your knobs fit the shafts…
55 dollars for two pots, a cap and a jack that don't cost more than 20 dollars. And you still have to solder the pickups and the ground wires to it.
If the sound guy isn't noticing much difference...
Try D'Addario NYXL or Pro Steels and maybe even go to a set with a gauge that has a little more tension than the gauge you're using now.
That's the cheapest out in all of this. If that doesn't work, then it's time to consider a Sadowsky Preamp pedal or pup swap. Cause here's the thing about it. Even if no one else notices a difference in your sound, but you do, that's all that matters. Nothing worse than playing a bass and you feel like it's lacking something even if it isn't from the audience / sound guy's perspective. If you notice it and it bothers you, then in the back of your mind it's a problem even though in reality it probably isn't. But to play your best, you should enjoy the sound you're getting, anything less can be distracting. Who wants to be distracted while they're playing?
I mean it's not convenient since you still have to solder several wires. At that point buy the parts and wire it up yourself and save a lot of money.
Definitely one can aim higher than the American pro electronics. I would go with an Emerson prewired kit and a PV63 pick up. I’ve used this combo several times and it’s magical.
As an owner of a couple of Mexican Player Ps, I caution you about chasing something perceived as better when, in actuality, the stock electronics sound very freaking good on these basses.
The Alnico 5 pickups used in these production models are a little bright. With the tone fully open, it is a little too bright, making them sound thin. As soon as you roll down your tone control, you get a very warm, round, the classic precision bass sound we all fell in love with.
I did the chasing replacements for a better sound safari. I replaced mine with Custom Shop 62' pickups and could not get them out fast enough. The original pickups went right back into the bass. I have the custom shop pickups sitting in my parts drawer. Used for exactly 1 day.
The thing about the stock pickups is, you don't realize how good they are until you hear how they sound with a rhythm section. The reason Pbasses sit so well in a mix is that the midrange response is perfect. It does not overwhelm the kick, and its not to sparkly too compete with cymbals and guitars. The most important thing about the sound is how well it works in the ensemble setting, not how it sounds soloed in your practice room. FWIW
Record your rehearsals, shows... You will be very surprised at what you have.
The Alnico 5 pickups used in these production models are a little bright. With the tone fully open, it is a little too bright, making them sound thin. As soon as you roll down your tone control, you get a very warm, round, the classic precision bass sound we all fell in love with.
I did the chasing replacements for a better sound safari. I replaced mine with Custom Shop 62' pickups and could not get them out fast enough. The original pickups went right back into the bass. I have the custom shop pickups sitting in my parts drawer. Used for exactly 1 day.
The thing about the stock pickups is, you don't realize how good they are until you hear how they sound with a rhythm section. The reason Pbasses sit so well in a mix is that the midrange response is perfect. It does not overwhelm the kick, and its not to sparkly too compete with cymbals and guitars. The most important thing about the sound is how well it works in the ensemble setting, not how it sounds soloed in your practice room. FWIW
Record your rehearsals, shows... You will be very surprised at what you have.
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Why should OP replace the pots and cap?To be fair to the pickup, it is worth upgrading the Jin Sung pots and ceramic tone cap to SOMETHING that is closer to a "standard" electronics harness. Using that as a starting point will give you a better idea of what the pickup is capable of and you can consider upgrades from there. CTS and Bourns are good choices and an orange drop or boutique cap will get you in the zone. The EMG GZR and the Fralin P could be great starting points and perhaps starting with the sadowsky preamp might get you closer as well. Good luck and let us know what you decide.
Pots all sound the same if the value is the same, and CTS and Bourns all have tolerance so their value will be all over the place just like for cheaper pots.
Caps in the tone circuit only dump treble to ground. There is no tone diference between a ceramic disc, an orange drop film cap and a boutique paper-in-oil unit if the value is the same, and caps have even worse tolerance than pots.
The only reason to replace the electronics is to have components that are sturdier, longer-lasting or different.
