Fender Precision from 60s and 70s: years to avoid?

[bluesdogblues]

@thebrian I agree with all you wrote & posts. I believe you have outstanding knowledge and very experience in the things. One of few I trust and respect in TB about vintage Fender basses.

About the trusted seller, the problem is we as a noob sometimes don't know which seller is best (besides yourself of course LOL) to buy from, who pass the criteria as you described. I/We know some of them who are really famous, and we may know them from searching & learning from internet (including from TB), but I often see their prices are usually 'higher' than what we see in other places (? CMIIW).
And while I believe all you said are true, and all about guarantee and approval period or money back, protection etc... I also thinking that -after passing some common criteria - to decide if a bass is good or not for me, IMHO it can be very subjective/personal issue. That's why I really prefer to try before buy, even if in the reality, me too often bought everything - including some basses online - not vintage- without test them first from the seller (as much as) I can trust. And so far my experience about it are.. well...so and so (I sold them again after few years). But that is the reality, much to the fact of where I live at (I'm not in USA nor Europe).

But above all, like I said before, your information is true and I like them. TY

 

[ultra60]

I started playing bass in the 70's, and lived through those bad years, lol. However, at the time, I would not have known the difference between a '78 or a '73.. or which was a dog, and which was not. All the cool punks, and everybody else, played a 70's P for the most part. Fast forward 35 years, and I own a decent '78. It's not my number one, but its very playable, and without any issues that I'm aware of. I own 3 P basses, and does not matter which I play. They all kind of sound the same. I prefer the shape of the newer necks. But that does not make the '78 a dog. It's still a rock machine.

 

[bluesdogblues]

...does not matter which I play. They all kind of sound the same. I prefer the shape of the newer necks. But that does not make the '78 a dog. It's still a rock machine.

LOL,..Maybe it's a "man behind the gun" factor.
I'm one of perhaps few TBers who eventually trust in that (that the player is the biggest factor). I mean at first, it's hard for me to accept opinions from my close musician friends (some of them are producers and engineers with 'sharp' ears) who said that "my sound is always the same no matter what bass/strings etc I play".. LOL. Now I accept it, but I still like to break it, looking for something different, as much as I can (incl trying other technical possibilities etc and other basses ).

BTW, my main bass now is also a '78. It's the best for me - and my friends agree about it. But it's only a tool, a servant for me, so I will always make it my 'benchmark' and compare it to other P-Basses. And I'll be happy if I can find (and have) one who can beat it.
Actually, I've ever found three or four P-basses who did beat it when I do the comparisons, but too bad I can't afford them LOL.
So I'm happy with what I have now.

 

[mrwood4]

Ive seen good basses and bass basses in every year, Buy the bass, not the year. ALSO - know the diff between a bad bass vs. a bass that needs love. Ive bought MANY a bad bass, changed the strings and did a proper set up and level and the bass was great... BTW - Whats your budget (in USD).. Im sure we have suggestions..

ALSO - See my old article in Premier Guitar Magazine - I had one on this very topic..

+1. Exactly. I bought an all original 74' P bass about 10 yrs ago and it was not impressive. I changed strings adjusted the neck and bridge some and it became wonderful.

 

[ultra60]

LOL,..Maybe it's a "man behind the gun" factor.

There's a lot of truth in that. I'm always on the lookout for 70's P basses. I live in the DC area, and they just don't come up for sale... ever. I should add that if I post a WTB ad, the prices seem to rise over night, lol.

 

[bluesdogblues]

There's a lot of truth in that. I'm always on the lookout for 70's P basses. I live in the DC area, and they just don't come up for sale... ever. I should add that if I post a WTB ad, the prices seem to rise over night, lol.

I think there's at least one of each (60s and 70s Fender P-Bass) available in TB Classified right now.

 

[The Bass Clef]

@thebrian I agree with all you wrote & posts. I believe you have outstanding knowledge and very experience in the things. One of few I trust and respect in TB about vintage Fender basses.

About the trusted seller, the problem is we as a noob sometimes don't know which seller is best (besides yourself of course LOL) to buy from, who pass the criteria as you described. I/We know some of them who are really famous, and we may know them from searching & learning from internet (including from TB), but I often see their prices are usually 'higher' than what we see in other places (? CMIIW).
And while I believe all you said are true, and all about guarantee and approval period or money back, protection etc... I also thinking that -after passing some common criteria - to decide if a bass is good or not for me, IMHO it can be very subjective/personal issue. That's why I really prefer to try before buy, even if in the reality, me too often bought everything - including some basses online - not vintage- without test them first from the seller (as much as) I can trust. And so far my experience about it are.. well...so and so (I sold them again after few years). But that is the reality, much to the fact of where I live at (I'm not in USA nor Europe).

But above all, like I said before, your information is true and I like them. TY

I appreciate that BDB, thanks. I know what you mean about not knowing the best vintage sellers, but at least we have a feedback system here and Paypal buyer protection also minimizes the risk. In most cases, if you really don't like the bass once you get it, and the seller just refuses to refund, at least Paypal will almost always side with the buyer. In your case, being overseas, that may get a little more comoplicated though.

I guess if someone's spending thousands on a vintage bass, it's their duty to research who they're buying from. And like you said, basses are subjective and there is always some risk that you may not like it - but most of the time you're only risking losing the shipping cost, not the full value of the bass. That's the price some people must pay if they live somewhere where they can't just drive to the nearest big guitar store and try out a nice selection of basses. But at least there are still good, safe online options for people like that. And IMO, it's much safe nowadays then it was 10 years ago. GC used and Musicstorelive are some other very safe ways to buy online and they offer very good return policies.

I think you're also correct that many respected people/stores do charge more on average than other compable basses on the market, and I think that's also fair.. Kinda like buying a "certified used" car from a dealership - You are going to pay more than the average private seller for the same car, but you get some peace of mind for that extra $$, and you can rest assured that it's a good car, and if something does go wrong, the seller will stand behind it. I do my best to sell vintage basses at reasonable prices. I'm definitely not one of those ebay sellers that prices their stuff in orbit and waits years for someone to come along to take advantage of, lol. My basses tend to sell within a few weeks to a few months, and I try hard to price my stuff at what other comaprible basses have sold for (or more accurately, what I've sold others like them for in the recent past).

I don't think most people realize how much extra time it takes to prove the authenticity of a vintage bass right there on the listing. I usually have a good day's work into each bass between dis-assembling, verifying, photographing, re-assembling, and then completely re-setting up these basses to play beautifully (which sometimes requires fretwork and/or taking the neck off and on several times to get it the best it can possibly play).. then there's still typing up the ads, uploading pics, and then packing and shipping them out! I tie my personal $$ up into these basses and put lots of time into them so the buyer doesn't have to wonder.. and in the end, often my basses sell for the same prices as the super risky ones on ebay with crappy pics and vague 2 sentence descriptions from sellers with no reputations for dealing in vintage gear! But I love what I do, and that is what matters!

 

[toomanyslurpees]

I have a 78 Pbass, I won't claim it's the end all be all of Pbasses but I think it's funny that two things I like about it are two of the reasons that late seventies Pbasses are often called crap.... It's heavy and it has a baseball bat for a neck. I won't defend the era as a whole cause I've only owned 2 Pbasses, one I liked and one I didn't. I wonder if I played a vintage 65 or whatnot if it wouldn't float my boat because it's lighter than what feels normal to me and neck is thinner than I like.

 

[mongo2]

Such intelligent advice. Just "avoid all of them". Because they all suck, just like all modern basses are better. The 1000s of pros must be wrong, this guy on talkbass warned you.

Your sarcasm aside, there's no need to spend a lot of money on an older bass just because it's older, a recent used model will serve just as well and cost less.

 

[bluesdogblues]

I appreciate that BDB, thanks. I know what you mean about not knowing the best vintage sellers, but at least we have a feedback system here and Paypal buyer protection also minimizes the risk. In most cases, if you really don't like the bass once you get it, and the seller just refuses to refund, at least Paypal will almost always side with the buyer. In your case, being overseas, that may get a little more comoplicated though.

I guess if someone's spending thousands on a vintage bass, it's their duty to research who they're buying from. And like you said, basses are subjective and there is always some risk that you may not like it - but most of the time you're only risking losing the shipping cost, not the full value of the bass. That's the price some people must pay if they live somewhere where they can't just drive to the nearest big guitar store and try out a nice selection of basses. But at least there are still good, safe online options for people like that. And IMO, it's much safe nowadays then it was 10 years ago. GC used and Musicstorelive are some other very safe ways to buy online and they offer very good return policies.

I think you're also correct that many respected people/stores do charge more on average than other compable basses on the market, and I think that's also fair.. Kinda like buying a "certified used" car from a dealership - You are going to pay more than the average private seller for the same car, but you get some peace of mind for that extra $$, and you can rest assured that it's a good car, and if something does go wrong, the seller will stand behind it. I do my best to sell vintage basses at reasonable prices. I'm definitely not one of those ebay sellers that prices their stuff in orbit and waits years for someone to come along to take advantage of, lol. My basses tend to sell within a few weeks to a few months, and I try hard to price my stuff at what other comaprible basses have sold for (or more accurately, what I've sold others like them for in the recent past).

I don't think most people realize how much extra time it takes to prove the authenticity of a vintage bass right there on the listing. I usually have a good day's work into each bass between dis-assembling, verifying, photographing, re-assembling, and then completely re-setting up these basses to play beautifully (which sometimes requires fretwork and/or taking the neck off and on several times to get it the best it can possibly play).. then there's still typing up the ads, uploading pics, and then packing and shipping them out! I tie my personal $$ up into these basses and put lots of time into them so the buyer doesn't have to wonder.. and in the end, often my basses sell for the same prices as the super risky ones on ebay with crappy pics and vague 2 sentence descriptions from sellers with no reputations for dealing in vintage gear! But I love what I do, and that is what matters!

TY,..I think if I ever buy a vintage fender basses, you'll be my first person to consider

Your sarcasm aside, there's no need to spend a lot of money on an older bass just because it's older, a recent used model will serve just as well and cost less.

The OP said he'd like to have a P-bass which made at the same as his birth year (1969). I think after they said it, there are no other option left
But I'm sorry I don't agree with you..(well we all may have our diferent opinion on a discussion subject right?),..., While I understand your point, but I think some old vintage basses are worth their value and prices. If I have the money, me too would be very happy to be able to have some 'piece of Fender History' basses. Even if it only for the sake of historic value.

 

[mongo2]

While I understand your point, but I think some old vintage basses are worth their value and prices. If I have the money, me too would be very happy to be able to have some 'piece of Fender History' basses. Even if it only for the sake of historic value.

Having owned and played them when they were new, cheap used instruments and now "vintage" I disagree. "Vintage" basses are nothing special simply because they're old. Like every era of production some are good, some are stinkers, with most being just Plain Jane average. Very, very few are "great" as many describe vintage instruments in general, in fact in over 40 years of playing, I've never found a "great" one.

I fail to see where a run of the mill mass produced instrument of that particular era is of any "historic" value. Old, yes...historic, no. Perhaps you can explain what you mean by that.

 

[bluesdogblues]

Since I said it that we may have diferent opinion on the subject, I don't think I need to explain it to you anymore, there's no point in that, and I'm not good in explaining either. It'll be worst cause my english limitation. I don't like to argue either.
Let other TBer(s) explain it to you if they would like to. Perhaps I'm just gonna say that, some old goods (cars, china etc) are expensive and getting more expensive, can be because many factor. One of the factor is, they're getting rarer.

 

[mongo2]

Since I said it that we may have diferent opinion on the subject, I don't think I need to explain it to you anymore, there's no point in that, and I'm not good in explaining either. Perhaps I'm just gonna say that, some old goods (cars, china etc) are expensive and getting more expensive, can be because many factor. One of the factor is, they're getting rarer.

Rarity doesn't make them any better than they are.

 

[ExaltBass]

You guys knock yourself out... unsubscribed

 

[The Bass Clef]

Having owned and played them when they were new, cheap used instruments and now "vintage" I disagree. "Vintage" basses are nothing special simply because they're old. Like every era of production some are good, some are stinkers, with most being just Plain Jane average. Very, very few are "great" as many describe vintage instruments in general, in fact in over 40 years of playing, I've never found a "great" one.

I fail to see where a run of the mill mass produced instrument of that particular era is of any "historic" value. Old, yes...historic, no. Perhaps you can explain what you mean by that.

I'm sorry you have no appreciation for the importance and the history of these instruments and simply only see them as wood and metal. I probably wouldn't be into your bass collection either, and not understand why you like what you spend your money on.. but the difference is, you won't see me all up in the threads about basses you like, trying to bag on them and convince you that you're mislead, or there's something way better out there that you should buy instead because I presume to know your reasoning better than you. We also shouldn't have to defend the words that you put into our mouths like "it must be good just because it's vintage". Nobody even said that. And that isn't what this thread is about anyways.. it's not a vintage vs. modern thread, it's a vintage year vs. vintage year thread.

As for vintage Fenders just being run of the mill.. I know dozens of people that played crap basses and Fender copies for years before they could afford a REAL Fender Bass. The entire world has always wanted quality American-made guitars, particularly Fenders and Gibsons. They were the absolute state of the art back then - not some cheap, run of the mill brand. Every bassist in the world wanted a real Fender in the '60s because they were the best!

But you, trying to hold a 1960s Fender to the same standards as modern basses (like a Fodera for instance) 50 or 60 years later, and telling people to "save their money" is absurd. And what's even more absurd is the fact you don't see that they are "apples and oranges", and the people buying vintage Fenders are not buying them for the same reasons as someone who is buying a brand new Sadowsky with all the bells and whistles. But you said yourself that you fail to see the historic value, so there you go. Some of us don't fail to see it.

 

[mongo2]

I'm sorry you have no appreciation for the importance and the history of these instruments and simply only see them as wood and metal.

They are tools, glorifying them or imbuing them with imaginary "mojo" or other such romantic attributes is meaningless.

But you, trying to hold a 1960s Fender to the same standards as modern basses (like a Fodera for instance) 50 or 60 years later, and telling people to "save their money" is absurd. And what's even more absurd is the fact you don't see that they are "apples and oranges", and the people buying vintage Fenders are not buying them for the same reasons as someone who is buying a brand new Sadowsky with all the bells and whistles. But you said yourself that you fail to see the historic value, so there you go. Some of us don't fail to see it.As for vintage Fenders just being run of the mill.. I know dozens of people that played crap basses and Fender copies for years before they could afford a REAL Fender Bass. The entire world has always wanted quality American-made guitars, particularly Fenders and Gibsons. They were the absolute state of the art back then - not some cheap, run of the mill brand. Every bassist in the world wanted a real Fender in the '60s because they were the best!

"Run of the mill" is precisely what these are, they just happen to come from the Fender mill. They are just another mass produced item made as inexpensively as possible to a certain standard and to sell at a profit.

But you, trying to hold a 1960s Fender to the same standards as modern basses (like a Fodera for instance) 50 or 60 years later, and telling people to "save their money" is absurd. And what's even more absurd is the fact you don't see that they are "apples and oranges", and the people buying vintage Fenders are not buying them for the same reasons as someone who is buying a brand new Sadowsky with all the bells and whistles. But you said yourself that you fail to see the historic value, so there you go. Some of us don't fail to see it.

Precisely what is it that you claim to see?

The point is they aren't apples and oranges, old and new are very much the same except for age. Using "vintage" to an apple into an orange simply doesn't work.

Frankly, it looks to me like pure BS, same with "mojo" or "vintage" or any other romantic notions people want to tack on to be able to inflate the price.

 

[The Bass Clef]

They are tools, glorifying them or imbuing them with imaginary "mojo" or other such attributes is meaningless.

It's meaningless to you, not to me. You said yourself that you fail to see the historic value of these instruments, and you also now seem to fail to see why others do see it. So now you're again falling back to the "mojo" argument and trying to make it seem like we're just superficial and it's really just all about the looks (or "imaginary mojo") when it isn't. Again, you presume to know us (vintage lovers) and our interests better than we know ourselves. That pretty pretentious man. It's never occurred to you that the history and significance of a vintage bass may be worth as much to me as the bells and whistles on a modern bass are to you. Do you realize that you are coming off in a way that makes you look intolerant of other people's interests and their reasoning as to why they like what they like. There's a lot of that in this world and frankly, it's sucks. Like I said, I probably wouldn't get why you spend your money on the basses that you like, but you don't see me or anyone else trying to convince you that you are "glorifying" them more than they deserve. Does having an on-board EQ, 2 9V batteries, dual graphite truss rods, and a spalted maple top make you bass "better" than my 50 year old Fender? Maybe to you, but not to me.

 

[mongo2]

It's meaningless to you, not to me. You said yourself that you fail to see the historic value of these instruments, and you also now seem to fail to see why others do see it. So now you're again falling back to the "mojo" argument and trying to make it seem like we're just superficial and it's really just all about the looks (or "imaginary mojo") when it isn't. Again, you presume to know us (vintage lovers) and our interests better than we know ourselves. That pretty pretentious man. It's never occurred to you that the history and significance of a vintage bass may be worth as much to me as the bells and whistles on a modern bass are to you. Do you realize that you are coming off in a way that makes you look intolerant of other people's interests and their reasoning as to why they like what they like. There's a lot of that in this world and frankly, it's sucks. Like I said, I probably wouldn't get why you spend your money on the basses that you like, but you don't see me or anyone else trying to convince you that you are "glorifying" them more than they deserve. Does having an on-board EQ, 2 9V batteries, dual graphite truss rods, and a spalted maple top make you bass "better" than my 50 year old Fender? Maybe to you, but not to me.

It is imaginary. There is nothing inherently better about an older instrument. I know that because I've owned them and I can look upon them dispassionately.

I'm talking about current day run of the mill Fender basses. I've never said anything about boutique basses. Currently, my most frequently used instruments are those I build for myself, lately using bodies I build up with pine shelving and inexpensive short scale necks I heavily modify. A couple of weekends ago I did use my Hofner Ignition Club bass at a gig, someone came up to me and the and the first words out of their mouth were, "How old is your Hofner? It sounds great" I told him, "Thanks. It's about a year old." He looked so disappointed.

BTW, you haven't answered my question, so I'll ask it again: Precisely what is it that you claim to see?

 

[The Bass Clef]

It is imaginary. There is nothing inherently better about an older instrument. I know that because I've owned them and can look upon them dispassionately.

I'm talking about current day run of the mill Fender basses. I've never said anything about boutique basses.

BTW, you haven't answered my question, so I'll ask it again: Precisely what is it that you claim to see?

I've answered that extensively at this point. You can choose to not agree with me, but I think you are the only one left on this thread that is still unclear on what I (and thousands if not millions of other bassists and guitarists) see in these vintage basses.. and it definitely ain't just the "mojo".

 

[mongo2]

I've answered that extensively at this point. You can choose to not agree with me, but I think you are the only one left on this thread that is still unclear on what I (and thousands if not millions of other bassists and guitarists) see in these vintage basses.. and it definitely ain't just the "mojo".

There ain't no mojo. There is still nothing inherently better about an old bass. An inexpensive used Fender of recent manufacture will serve just as well as an old one and save a lot of money.