Fender: Vintage or Custom Shop?

[Mark 63]

I have vintage Fender basses (pre- and early CBS) and a CS Jaco bass. All are excellent. The vintage basses are more resonant and produce deeper tones. They each have minor issues of fragility. The CS is also excellent and has zero issues.
No hesitation to play any of them out. That's what they're for. If a gig is someplace where I'd worry about theft, I have an American Standard P-bass with an Am Orig Jazz neck. It's a good bass also.
Fender products have never let me down.

 

[DarkStar90]

Im old so I have owned many 60's and a few 70's fenders back in the late 60's and 70's. Today I have a 66 precision I had two and sold one 5 years ago. I also have owned two C.S. Jazz basses and a C.S. 59 precision. I liked them all but the thing I cant believe is how prices have shot up. I had an early 1996 Custom shop jazz bass it was a nice bass I sold it for what I paid which was about $1900 new. The guy who bought it turned around and listed it for sale at $4000. ***? I would look for a used custom shop bass and be patient. I sold a CS 59 precision bass that I loved it played great and sounded great it was made in 2002 I sold it for $2250. I sold my 66 precision for $3500 5 years ago today I have seen two similar basses one at Normans Rare guitars for around $9000 I believe Willies in Minnesota also had one in the same price range. To me that's way out of line but I am old and I remember when a 60's fender was $150-$250 In the 80's no one wanted them they were out of fashion. I would look patiently for a custom shop and preferably play it before you buy or make sure you have a 24 hour approval period. I have a Fender Dusty Hill that is a great player I may sell only because Im going to reduce the number of basses I own I wont be gigging too much in the next few years.

To be honest, seeing MIM standard basses selling for 1300$ CDN and Roadworns listed at 1699$CDN is even more unbelievable. MIM is clearly no longer 'entry level'. I bought my Stingray in 2003 for 1400$. I'd rather pay 4000 for a CS than 1700 for MIM. Its even weirder because 10 year old MIM standards still sell for around 300$ on the used market. Is a CS worth double an MIM? I absolutely think so. Quadruple even.

 

[jimmydean]

There are some great vintage Fenders out there , but if the tone was the same , I would have to buy a CS today . One , I could afford it and the materials / components would be new .

 

[Picton]

Good thread, but we’re at the point where it goes like this:

OP: Should I get A, or B?

Poster: Get G!

I don’t think the OP can go wrong with either a well-chosen vint OR an FCS. Cost and resale are most of the equation.

Good luck, OP.

 

[marchone]

I recently paid $3K for a CS 64 Jazz Bass. They're out there. I also have the 1969 Telecaster Bass in my avatar I bought that year. I understand they're different models but in fit and finish it's like comparing a Dodge to a Ferrari.

 

[REV]

You won't be able to play a Custom Shop bass until it's delivered. If you don't like it, then what? If you can play the Vintage bass first and you like it, then that's the one. With Fender basses it's always a crap shoot. The one really good Fender will sell 1000 mediocre ones.

 

[Rnr..........4]

I'd go Custom shop. Know what you're getting and new out of the gate. Less cost than a relic.

 

[Michael Eisenman]

25396988[/URL], member: 55676"]...you can't get pre-CBS basses with a 9 1/2" neck radius or graphite strips in the neck…The rounder 7 1/4" neck radius is a total deal breaker, though.

Just to bust your chops/yank your chain, 7¼” is no more round than 9½”. It just has a smaller radius. To quote G.K. Chesterton, “A small circle is as infinite as a large circle, but it is not so large.”

 

[Wolfhound32]

It’s always been my understanding that there was a steep decline in quality during the CBS years, but I’m open to arguments.

First, my perspective comes from playing Fenders' since the early 1980s.

Second, there's not been a steep decline in quality; more like a rollercoaster.

To your original question; be honest with yourself-- forget the internet even exists-- and answer this question: "why do I want a "vintage" instrument?"

Which would you choose:
- 50-year old hammer for $5,000 (let's call it "Vintage")
- Modern hammer for $500

Vintage stuff can be great when you know exactly what and from which era you want.
Today however, consistently using most of the 60's/70's instruments on stage involves more stress than I'm willing to endure. Parts fail at the worst possible moments, glues separate, repairs are more expensive (comparatively). Though it is nice owning a piece of history, it's not the most practical in use.

Do you want something to play regularly that will be dependable and sound good, or are you looking to satisfy a sense of nostalgia? Both are completely reasonable desires; which are you after?

Fender's Custom Shop, just like any builder, makes great instruments-- and have created it's share of duds (i.e. rollercoaster). Compare a non-relic Custom Shop P-bass, to the current Fender Professional II P-bass; aside from the difference in price, you will be hard pressed to find any substantive difference. Owning one myself burst my fantasy image of the Custom Shop. If you're looking for something that looks old, then the Custom Shop may be your best bet.

All boils down to what you want the instrument to do:
- Play well & be a dependable performance instrument?
- Be a connection to a by-gone era?
- Impress people
* Be an investment for children

Once you answer these questions, you'll not need to ask others how you should spend your money.

In the end, it's your money to do with as you please. While you would be wise to spend more time determining exactly what you want the object of your desire to accomplish, the better off you'll be.

Best of luck!



* The worst possible choice is count on musical instruments as investments. Such things are only worth what someone else is willing to pay-- and that fluctuates-- a lot! Research what economists are predicting about the next few years, the record inflation rates, devaluation of US currency, negative interest rates... Also research investments which have been successful, and those that haven't. Just a bit of advice from someone who's been down this road~

~

 

[ShoeManiac]

I have only played a couple of Fender Custom Shop basses. One was the Pino Palladino signature Precision bass, and the other was a repro of a '62 Jazz bass in black & tort. They both played very well. The Pino signature bass has the benefit of a quartersawn neck which is amazingly stable, and the shape made it incredibly easy to play. The bodies were relatively light and the detail work was impeccable. But at $3300 at the time, I couldn't begin to realistically think about getting that Pino bass.

And then there are vintage instruments. Some are amazing players, but because of that they have substantial finish wear. The ones with impeccable finishes very often didn't play well, so they sat. Refinished instruments can be good, but the finish work can vary depending on who has done the job. So the prices on all of these can vary depending on the market. Vintage instruments also come with some challenges - are you prepared to try to preserve an instrument in it's all original condition? Some of those parts just don't hold up after 60+ years. Pickups and wiring can be especially tricky. My repair guy has done plenty of vintage restorations. And he's been frank about vintage instruments - sometimes you need to replace parts with something modern that works well. The build quality of parts, pickups and electronics today is simply better.

I think what it boils down to with either the Custom Shop or a vintage instrument is this - are they worth the cost? When Fender Custom Shop basses were largely in the $2k - $3k range, I could see the justification for that price. But prices have gone up - Custom Shop basses that are currently listed with one online retailer range from $3600 - $5k. Has the quality of the workmanship gone up as well? I would argue that it's still at a high level, but there hasn't been an increase in build quality that parallels the increased prices. Rather, I think that the price hikes are more in line with increased demand. As for a vintage instrument as your only bass? I wouldn't feel comfortable doing that on account of the special attention that a vintage bass might require. And with both the Custom Shop and vintage instruments, it seems like a large segment of the people playing them are looking at it from a status standpoint.

I think that a solidly built instrument, high quality parts, excellent pickups and a great luthier are the right recipe for an instrument that plays exceptionally well. Some bodies and necks are special, so search out those basses that feel really good and use those as a starting point. Excellent tuners and bridges matter because they're in contact with the strings. The quality of the nut material and how it's been cut is crucial. The neck adjustment is where serious fine tuning happens, and even the best luthier might not be opposed to shimming a neck in order to get the perfect angle. But I think you can get the level of playability in an instrument like a Fender American Original that you might get from a Custom Shop bass if you make some minor mods and have a great luthier to work with.

 

[Craig Orndorff]

I have more thoughts on this, as you guys have given me a ton to consider, but regarding a luthier, I’d like for it to be local, so it’s even that more special for my daughter, but since the one I generally would used called me a “giant pile of sh…..” on Facebook and suggested that my daughter’s used clothing we were selling on FB could be used in satanic rituals, that’s probably gonna be a hard no.

 

[ShoeManiac]

Check out the Roberto Venn school of luthiery website. They're happy to send potential clients to their graduates. My guy went there. And a number of people at the Fender Custom Shop went through their program, too.

Featured Alumni - Roberto-Venn

 

[Groove Doctor]

Just buy the bass you fall in love with, that has the feel/sound/look you like, and you prefer playing over all your current basses.

 

[JimmyM]

Just to bust your chops/yank your chain, 7¼” is no more round than 9½”. It just has a smaller radius. To quote G.K. Chesterton, “A small circle is as infinite as a large circle, but it is not so large.”

Right. Well let's just say I prefer larger circles

 

[LeFunk Machine]

How about you get 2 American Originals Precision (50s (maple) and 60s (rosewood) ) for the price of 1 customshop or vintage pre-cbs? Or maybe an American Original Jazz plus an American Original P bass? Maybe you might be a jazz bass guy in the future.

If you buy a custom-shop, you're going to most likely loose a lot of money on it if you ever decides to sell it compared to selling the American Original if it ever bores you

 

[projectapollo]

I have a 1996 Cunetto Custom Shop Jazz. So it’s Both vintage (25 years old) and a fine hand crafted CS. Tone is awesome. Find one of those and you’ll get both needs met.

 

[Fender_Bender]

Pretty tough question. A vintage axe will increase in value but you’d have to insist on playing it first. The thing is is that the Fender design with a bolt on maple neck on a usually softish wood body is highly variable. My intuition is that some necks work very well with a particular body and others don’t. This can be the case at any price point. I’ve tried a few CS’s in stores and they haven’t blown me away. But, that’s probably why they’re up for sale anyways. I’d be pretty pissed to put down $5k on a new CS only to find it sounding equal to a Squier affinity. What can you do ?.

 

[BobKos]

Have to say in your situation, your daughter won't likely care if it is CS, Pre CBS, MIM, or whatever. She will care that whatever YOU like and play alot will be 'Dad's favorite bass'. That's the value in it. Buy what you like.

 

[CletusMarley]

I don't know. I've played a couple vintage P Basses and wasn't blown away by them other than the fact that I was playing a 50 year old instrument. I've played loads of vintage Strats, LPs and Teles over the years as well as CS Strats and Teles and Historic Les Pauls. There were great examples of both vintage and CS instruments and some not so good. I think the mojo factor makes people think vintage is automatically better. My Historic Les Pauls are better to me than any vintage Les Paul I've played. As far as Fender goes, they are very simple bolt on instruments. I don't think you have to go CS or Vintage to get a really good one. You don't even have to go high dollar. If you want to that's awesome. I'm def not being critical of anybody's preferences. Just my opinion. I played a few old Teles in Gruhn's that I would have shanked someone for. lol

 

[tbz]

I wouldn’t make any instrument purchasing decisions based on eventual valuation, right now.

We are, with the exceptions of very popular things like Les Paul 58-60 bursts, probably at or near peak guitar pricing.

Boomers and Gen-X’ers all grew up worshipping musicians that, primarily, played guitar. So we’ve seen them become collectible instruments as a result.

Once those folks age out, I’m not really sure if these over-manufactured instruments will stay valuable.

Guitars are not the primary instrument of popular bands now. Most modern music is made digitally.

Kids getting started with music now are honestly more likely to download an app, than buy an instrument. Which likely will continue.

With all that in mind, it’s not logical to buy and instrument based on potential value in 20+ years. It’s a market that is more than likely going to collapse.