Fender vs. Boutique

[Nino Valenti]

take a wild guess...

Ummm......



....Valenti?

 

[Brad Johnson]

I understand your point, but from my experience, I've yet to see a bass from Mike Lull that didn't exceed my expectations. More importantly, I've yet to see/play a Lull that was lacking or sub-par in any of the objective criteria that we commonly use to evaluate a bass....nut, fretwork, fit and finish, etc. Granted, I can only base my opinion on the basses I've seen, but that goes for any opinion concerning anything....right? Again, I'm sure that there are those who will disagree, but based on what I've seen, I've only seen the best work that a person can hope to accomplish. My experience with Sadowsky is not as extensive, but I rank both guys as being at the top of their game. Can true "perfection" (in most things in life) ever be accomplished? Probably not. Still yet, I think that people understand this and still get the point. My '77 Fender is no where near as tight as your below average modern bass.

Keeping it real.....
JPJ

I understand your intentions, it's just been my experience that of the hundreds of basses I've come across over the years I can't think of one builder who would guarantee perfection. Not one. And if the builder wouldn't...

Guess we'd have to define "subpar". My "par" for sound and playability is pretty high and most of the boutique Jazzes, while well built and nice looking, don't make the cut.

Satisfaction, yes. Perfection, nope... and I have quite a few basses that come as close as humanly possible IMO. Then you talk to some luthiers and their quest for perfection shines through in conversation. They might point out "flaws" you'd never notice. Heck, my wife pointed something out on a bass I've owned for a couple of years that I never noticed before.

As far as "tight", that's one of the complaints that's always amused me. I have a 78 Jazz that has both a 3 bolt joint and a visible gap. When I got the bass a couple of years back I tightened the screws... and it hasn't moved since. That makes it a non-issue for me.

Here's what I don't get about the gap issue... what's the difference other than visual of a 1mm gap over a 3mm gap?



Anyway, my Jazz has an excellent fretjob, low action and tone that jumps right out at me every time I play it. That's it's own kind of perfection.

I'd put my stock 78 Ash/Maple Jazz up against any boutique jazz I've come across... and I've played several examples of most of them. It produces a sound the boutique basses haven't nailed so far IME. Quite possibly due to it being slightly less refined.

I guess it's all about what you're looking for. Perfection isn't high on my list (though that doesn't mean I'm looking for a Wishbass)... I tend to look for stuff that knocks me out, most importantly in sound and playability. Fit and finish alone won't do.

 

[Fuzzbass]

It produces a sound the boutique basses haven't nailed so far IME. Quite possibly due to it being slightly less refined.

"Lack of refinement" is an excellent point. One might argue that active basses are "better" simply because they are higher fidelity, etc. Or that modern necks are "better" because they have stiffening bars or dual trussrods or whatnot which make them far less susceptible to warpage. Or that graphite necks are "better" because they lack dead spots and are nearly impervious to changes in temperature and humidity. But IME, all of these "improvements" change tone, so if tone is one's #1 criteria for selecting a bass, a vintage Fender -- "warts" and all -- could legitimately be one's best choice.

 

[Big String]

Excellent points Gentlemen. Very good points.
Again, isn't it great to have so many choices.

If I ever came across a vintage instrument I just loved and could afford I wouldn't hesitate to buy it. I'm not really a collector because I have sold traded all of my 60's and 70's instruments back when they were not worth but a few hundred dollars used. (Thanks George Groen and few others for single handedly driving the prices out of this universe) Wish I would have though of it. Those few guys own most of the Fender amps, guitars and basses that are now worth millions. I'm sure there are/were some other astute buyers from Japan too. Heck those Japanese made Fenders are superb and worth a ton of money now. Some of the specs on the Japs were better than the 60's Fends.

 

[Brad Johnson]

"Lack of refinement" is an excellent point. One might argue that active basses are "better" simply because they are higher fidelity, etc. Or that modern necks are "better" because they have stiffening bars or dual trussrods or whatnot which make them far less susceptible to warpage. Or that graphite necks are "better" because they lack dead spots and are nearly impervious to changes in temperature and humidity. But IME, all of these "improvements" change tone, so if tone is one's #1 criteria for selecting a bass, a vintage Fender -- "warts" and all -- could legitimately be one's best choice.

Exactly.

 

[hands5]

I understand your intentions, it's just been my experience that of the hundreds of basses I've come across over the years I can't think of one builder who would guarantee perfection. Not one. And if the builder wouldn't...

Guess we'd have to define "subpar". My "par" for sound and playability is pretty high and most of the boutique Jazzes, while well built and nice looking, don't make the cut.

Satisfaction, yes. Perfection, nope... and I have quite a few basses that come as close as humanly possible IMO. Then you talk to some luthiers and their quest for perfection shines through in conversation. They might point out "flaws" you'd never notice. Heck, my wife pointed something out on a bass I've owned for a couple of years that I never noticed before.

As far as "tight", that's one of the complaints that's always amused me. I have a 78 Jazz that has both a 3 bolt joint and a visible gap. When I got the bass a couple of years back I tightened the screws... and it hasn't moved since. That makes it a non-issue for me.

Here's what I don't get about the gap issue... what's the difference other than visual of a 1mm gap over a 3mm gap?



Anyway, my Jazz has an excellent fretjob, low action and tone that jumps right out at me every time I play it. That's it's own kind of perfection.

I'd put my stock 78 Ash/Maple Jazz up against any boutique jazz I've come across... and I've played several examples of most of them. It produces a sound the boutique basses haven't nailed so far IME. Quite possibly due to it being slightly less refined.

I guess it's all about what you're looking for. Perfection isn't high on my list (though that doesn't mean I'm looking for a Wishbass)... I tend to look for stuff that knocks me out, most importantly in sound and playability. Fit and finish alone won't do.

Brad I tellya,I think we must have been brothers in another life because there are a lot of threads here at TB that you've responded to include this one that I totaly agree with what you've had to say.because this Mike lull,Sadowsky,Fender thing just makes me laugh !.Anyway it's good debate,and "to each his own,and to you,BRAVO,BRAVO,BRAVO.