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Fender Zone Bass (U.S) Pre-Amp Noise

L

lbcsrw

Nov 30, 2009
6
0
#1
I just purchased a used, but very good condition, Fender Zone Bass, made in the USA, which features a figured maple top, two active humbucking pickups, and a Fender proprietary 18 volt preamp. As soon as I plugged it in, I noticed that the pre-amp seemed quite noisy to me.

I was wondering if this is common, if this is an issue known to Fender, and what options I have for a solution. I called Fender today and the person I spoke with claimed to have not heard about this issue, although as I've searched on-line, many others seem to have had this problem.

I know that this wasn't a hot seller for Fender, and not that many were made, but I was hoping someone here might have had some first hand experience with this issue.

For clarification's sake, this is not the Mexican made Zone with the passive P/J configuration.

Thanks in advance!

s
 
#2
What are you doing with the controls? If it's like the Prodigy bass's boost-only (kubicki style) preamp you might just have a lot of treble boost going on.

So, some questions:
- are you using an active input on your amp or a passive input (sometimes the impedance makes a difference)?
- is the noise a 'hiss' or a 'hum' or something else?
- does the noise change when you reorient the bass, with respect to any possible noise sources like flouro lights, your amp, TV, computer or even fridge? If true, is it true of both pickups?
- is it present when the volume is down or only when it's up?
- is it modified when the pickup balance is changed or is it constant?
- does the bass have a passive mode that you can compare to?
- does the noise reduce when you touch the strings with your hands?

I'm sorry I can't help any more than by giving some troubleshooting tips!
 
#4
Thank you for the replies.

Sorry for the lack of specifics. I will do my best to answer your queries.

First, the bass was set with all the tone controls at their detent positions. The volume was full up, and the pick-up mixer was in the middle, between the two. The noise seemed to remain the same regardless of which pup was selected.

I was running the instrument directly into a Presonus Firebox instrument input, and recording in Cubase SX3.

The noise I referred to was, indeed, hiss. It did not change with the instrument's orientation. I did not check to see if the noise was present with the volume down. I'll try that tomorrow. I do not believe that the noise was not grounding or interference, however. I do not think the instrument has a passive mode.

The noise was far more pronounced than my passive Fender P-bass, or my Jazz bass, which has active Bartolini 9E pups. FYI, the batteries were fresh.
 
#5
Okay. Often if the noise is steady hiss, that's the preamp's design and there won't be anything you can do. If it's a crackly poppy "frying eggs" sound then the pre is faulty, but a steady hiss is usually normal thermal noise in the preamp components, indicating a bass pre that's fine if you don't have a tweeter in your amp but not much use for the hifi guys.

Another time we get excessive hiss is if the preamp is designed to work for loud pickups, but you only have quiet ones. This is rare in a factory instrument, and more likely in an upgraded one, say, low output barts coupled with an EMG BQC. It works, but not all that well due to the pickup output being too close to the pre's noise floor.

You might want to look at rewiring the bass passive (I'm assuming the pickups are not actually active, but that they're just the usual "passives with a preamp" system that nearly everyone's using these days) which will usually eliminate hiss, but you might lose some level. Or replace the pre.
 
#6
lbcsrw said:
Thank you for the replies.

Sorry for the lack of specifics. I will do my best to answer your queries.

First, the bass was set with all the tone controls at their detent positions. The volume was full up, and the pick-up mixer was in the middle, between the two. The noise seemed to remain the same regardless of which pup was selected.

I was running the instrument directly into a Presonus Firebox instrument input, and recording in Cubase SX3.

The noise I referred to was, indeed, hiss. It did not change with the instrument's orientation. I did not check to see if the noise was present with the volume down. I'll try that tomorrow. I do not believe that the noise was not grounding or interference, however. I do not think the instrument has a passive mode.

The noise was far more pronounced than my passive Fender P-bass, or my Jazz bass, which has active Bartolini 9E pups. FYI, the batteries were fresh.
Click to expand...

Assuming that you've recorded on your Firebox with passive basses with no hiss then the problem is clearly in the bass and not in the Firebox front end. [some mixers are notoriously noisy]

You should be aware that a passive bass does NOT hiss! [or at least in any detectable amount] Hence, a passive bass is your standard of comparison. Most active basses for some reason hiss to a degree. Theoretically an active bass could be no more noisy than the input preamp on your bass amp or recording rig. But somehow that is rarely the case. We have speculated here that the reason has to do with the fact that the bass has to run off of batteries with long life so ultra low current amplifiers are chosen even if they have more noise.

So that means the hiss is in the active electronics of the bass. A lot of people complain about Fender active electronics being noisy although mine isn't. This means that the problem is the "luck of the draw". The amplification inside your active bass circuit is created by an integrated circuit "chip". These will be found on the circuit board in the bass and are little flat plastic wafers with "legs" on two sides. The normal configuration is known as a "DIP" pack and is typical in bass circuits. That "chip" may be soldered into to circuit board or may be plugged into a socket.

Here's where this is going. If the dip pack is soldered in, you need to (or have a skilled technician) remove the chip(s) and install a socket(s). Then you have to buy a bag of these chips and try them one at a time until you find a low noise one. There are places who will pretest many such chips and sell the low noise ones at a premium price which eliminates a lot of the work.

That is about the only fix. The only other fix is to install another brand of active electronics that is lower noise, or to simply rip it out and convert the bass to passive if that is possible.
 
#7
Thanks David & Ben!

I like the instrument. It was developed to compete with boutique instruments at a time when Fender felt their high-end sales were flagging. As such, it has many really nice qualities, including two soap-bar humbuckers (actually two sets of two j pups), a bridge that allows strings to be run through the body or through the back of the bridge, a bone nut, and a beautiful neck. It is, by far, the best bass I've owned.

Quite honestly, I am really surprised that they would have chosen such a poorly designed and/or implemented pre-amp system. Is there any way to find out who designed the bass?

I think the shock was greater for me because I use an active system in my Jazz Bass. The Bartolini 9E pickups have the preamp built into the pups themselves. They sound strong, and are dead quiet with just one 9v battery.

I sincerely doubt that I'll be willing to solve Fender's design problems for them. While it may cost a bit more, I think I'll replace the pre-amp with an Aguilar OBP-3 system, unless anyone has another suggestion.
 
#9
Btw, the electronics on these were always their weak point. I currently have a P bass Lyte, from which the Zone derived, and it has the same issue. I would also suggest either replacing the preamp or wiring it passive. I replaced the pickups in mine and am in the process of wiring it passive.
 
#10
I had one of the original Lytes, with a beautiful Pewter sparkle finish. It got stolen from my car while I was at a gig. I don't remember it being noisy, though. The American Zone basses are much nicer, I think, except for the preamp.

RE the Zone, I'm not really sure what kinds of pups it could take. Any suggestions? Also, I'm pretty sure that, whatever active electronics I get, I'll have a switch added for passive.
 

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