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fifth notes?

#21
ZAPPA.

'nuff said.(but in case you don't know him that well...)

He'd take 5 notes per bar of 4/4 and superimpose them over 7 notes in the same space. Heck, he'd throw those in a count of 3 out of the bar of 4.

Get Peter Magadini's book(Musician's Guide to Polyrhythms. See above). You'll find that playing 4 notes over top of 5 is easy, but once you switch the accents to hear 5 over a group of 4, it's a heck of a lot harder.
 
#22
I think he was asking about 8th and 1/4 notes, and asking if there were "5th" notes. There aren't.

"5-tuplets" maybe. . .

I am playing music right now by Maurizio Kagel that is FULL of 5 16ths in the space of four.
-They just ain't called "fifth" notes! :mad:


(I'm feeling like a nasty old doublebass curmudgeon more and more these days! :smug:
 
#23
But there are....quintuplets.

The point of me explaining Magadini's polyrhythm exercise was to show that you can divide bars into 5th notes. Although technically speaking, it's either going to be a bar of 5/4(which isn't 5th notes), or superimposing 5 equally spaced notes into a full bar of 4/4(which almost fully defines 5th notes as I believe asked, but then with the bar of 4/4 thrown into the mix...).

Perhaps we need a clearer explanation of what definition is being looked for. Rest assured though, that you CAN play 5 equally spaced notes in a bar of music, which would make them 5th notes. And like I said, Zappa would play 7th notes over top of all of that in a bar of 4/4.

There's a tune on Derek Sherinian's new CD "Mythology" where the band in playing a riff in 7/4, and Zakk Wylde is playing 9 chord shots in the same space. It sounds wicked.
 
#25
Dynna said:
Rest assured though, that you CAN play 5 equally spaced notes in a bar of music, which would make them 5th notes.
Click to expand...

If it's a bar of 4/4 they're quarter note quintuplets. Not fifths.

Edit: perhaps I misunderstood... a second reading of your post and I realise you're using "fifths" as the OP defined them.
 
#27
dlloyd said:
If it's a bar of 4/4 they're quarter note quintuplets. Not fifths.

Edit: perhaps I misunderstood... a second reading of your post and I realise you're using "fifths" as the OP defined them.
Click to expand...

1 quarter note = 1 whole note / 4
1 eighth note = 1 whole note / 8

then 1 fifth note = 1 whole note / 5 , yes, maybe???

I would make the semantic argument that a quarter note quintuplet and a "fifth note" are the exact same thing, a whole note divided into 5 beats. Which would make eighth note quintuplets.... tenth notes. :)

Mike
 
#28
l0calh05t said:
Germans call them, Ganze, Halbe, Viertel, Achtel etc. (so basically the usual with whole, half, quarter and eight etc. except in german)

The only strange thing we do is call Bb B and B H
Click to expand...

In Spanish the notes are: redonda, blanca, negra, corchea, semicorchea, fusa and semifusa.

In Portuguese the notes are: semibreve, minima, seminima, colcheia, semicolcheia, fusa and semifusa

I don't know of a word in either language for a fifth note.
 
#31
LM Bass said:
Hitting "Unsubscribe" right after this.

there are NO 5th notes. . .

!
Click to expand...

Testy, testy.

OK, I have never heard of a "fifth note" until this post and will say that the "proper" term is a quarter note quintuplet, because it is written as a quarter note with the horizontal bracket above it with a 5. In music notation there is no singular rhythmic figure for a "fifth note". So in the context of music notation, there is no fifth note.
But my previous post was just a logic word game, hence the title of the post. Putting the terminology aside I think the poster was just trying to get hip to the concept of fives, and I think the concept is the important part.
We need a finale plugin for this site. It would make posting here a lot easier. But I guess finale would have to make it first.

Mike
 
#32
mbeall said:
Testy, testy.

OK, I have never heard of a "fifth note" until this post and will say that the "proper" term is a quarter note quintuplet, because it is written as a quarter note with the horizontal bracket above it with a 5. In music notation there is no singular rhythmic figure for a "fifth note". So in the context of music notation, there is no fifth note.
But my previous post was just a logic word game, hence the title of the post. Putting the terminology aside I think the poster was just trying to get hip to the concept of fives, and I think the concept is the important part.
We need a finale plugin for this site. It would make posting here a lot easier. But I guess finale would have to make it first.

Mike
Click to expand...


You could also export notes as graphics (or perhaps pdf or svg if possible) and add them as attachment
 
#33
Not to just waste time arguing semantics, but it seems to me in the truest sense, there is no fifth note. I mean that in the sense that quarter notes and eighth notes, for examples, have a shape or design, or symbol that readily identifies them as such for the purposes of notation.

I refer to the shape, stem, number of "flags", etc. A fifth note would be longer in tonal length than a quarter note, but shorter than a half note. However, there just isn't one, single symbol for that note duration.

Thus when students of introductory music theory learn the names of note symbols, they do not learn a single symbol for a fifth note as it does not exist in the same way quarter notes, half notes and sixteenth notes do.

That said, I recognize that music notation is not perfect. Indeed, maybe there SHOULD be a single, easily recognized symbol for fifth notes and even tenth notes, too.

Then we could probably go on and say there should be ways to notate tones that fall between the commonly named tones...for example...what falls between B and C. But that argument is for an entirely different thread. In fact, I think we did have a thread like that several years ago.
 
#34
Boplicity said:
A fifth note would be longer in tonal length than a quarter note, but shorter than a half note.
Click to expand...
No it would be shorter than a quarter but longer than an eighth beucase there are 5 per 4/4 measure. 5-tuplets would be a fithnote but good luck trying to play them. Seriously try and play 5 notes in a 4/4 bar, have your drummer play a really simple 4/4 beat on the bass drum (a metronome will work to and is easyer to put up with :D) and play 5 notes for every 4 beats he plays, that some hard stuff but it could be possible if you're really good.
 

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