Fills runs and embellishments

[bazcandotcom]

Hi all pros,

Need some insights/advice on when to use embellishments and fills so that it's tasteful. Finding the sweet spot between overplaying and playing too little.

Some players can play so much yet make everything sound tasteful all at the same time(Mononeon, Sharay Reed etc)

Do you have any of your guidelines that you follow?

Let me know thanks !

 

[dreamadream99]

If there are vocals, don't step on them. Keep it simple while lyrics are being sung; fill the spaces between vocals.

If there are other instruments that fill those kinds of spaces too (lead or steel guitar, keyboard, harmonica, etc.), don't hog them all. Trade around.

Save runs for the measure/beats preceding a new chord.

Tasteful bass lines aren't the same every measure. In a four measure phrase with 2 measure groupings, measure 1 establishes your motif. Measure 2 is different. Measure 3 is the same as 1. Measure 4 is a variation of measure 2. In a four measure phrase with 4 repeated bars, measures 1-3 are very similar; measure 4 is a variation.

 

[fearceol]

Do you have any of your guidelines that you follow?

Without meaning to sound facetious....my ears, my experience, and simply what sounds "right" to me. What's "right" for one song or piece of music, may sound terrible if used for another. IMO this kind of stuff can't be taught.

 

[two fingers]

Without meaning to sound facetious....my ears, my experience, and simply what sounds "right" to me. What's "right" for one song or piece of music, may sound terrible if used for another. IMO this kind of stuff can't be taught.

This.

Some songs you can go nuts if you know what you're doing.

In other songs the empty spaces are what make the song. In those I take a "Just because you can that doesn't mean you should" approach to the bass line.

 

[SteveCS]

I like to add extended fills that harmonise with the vocal cadenza, so for example, Alison Moyet All Cried Out or Tina Arena In Chains, in the later choruses where they let rip, a tasty highly decorated fill using the same phrasing (not the same notes) as the vocal, can really raise the song. Or the same approach can be used to highlight key lines, ie those with the really important words, in verses.
I listen to horn players and how they weave in and out between and across measures. Another good source of ideas, if you're not averse to heading up the dusty end, is classical string arrangements - listen out for the mid-register Viola and higher Cello parts, for example, that often pick up harmonies with the main melody but still tie in with the underlying rhythmic structure, creating smooth links between the chord changes whilst being melodic in their own right. Mozart is great for this.

 

[MalcolmAmos]

All good advise so far. Dreamadream99 hit it on the head - don't step on toes. Augment what is happening.

• Praise music has a message. Don't get in the way of the message. Augment that message. One way of doing that is in the slower prayer songs one root note at the chord change and nothing else till the next chord change is effective in calling attention to the message being sung.
• Lyrics are telling a story. Don't get in the way of the story. You and the drummer provide the rhythm and groove for the vocalists to follow. The vocalist singing the story is the reason for the song.
• Dance music is danced to. Be careful here. The old tried and true root-five with chromatic walks to the next chord that Country will use has been danced to for a long time. Don't mess with the beat and you will be OK.
• If there is a place for a run or fill, like between verses, etc. make sure that space is not taken already by someone else. We don't need two runs or fills that are not in sync with each other.

It's kinda like what we learned in Kindergarden, share the space and be nice. If your fills or runs do that, nothing wrong with a well placed run or fill.

If you have a song coming up in the selection, and you think a run or fill would add something. Find what others have done with that space. Get some bass clef sheet music on that song and look for the runs and fills. Yes you probably will have to buy sheet music with a bass clef, or transcribe it. If there are some fills or runs you like try them out the next time you practice with the band and if they fit, the way your guys play this song, ask that this space becomes yours. Lot of times I think a run will fit, but, when we all get together there is just not time or space for it. Best left along if this is the case.

Back to what Dreamadream99 said. Don't step on toes.

 

[mambo4]

Do you have any of your guidelines that you follow?

The challenge is you want the fills to be appropriate for the context.
Just because you hear a space does not mean that space requires filling.
It's about listening, feeling, and consciously responding o the music
It's a bit hippy - dippy in a way

my approach is basically parts:

1.) master the simplest possible line that works
2.) listen to the music
3.) put your feel of the music into the simplest possible line that works
4.) listen to the music for appropriate places
5.) play appropriate fills

1.) master the simplest possible line that works

know it so well it can be executed by instinct, using minimal sufficient focus to execute well.
know it so well that it runs inside your head at all times, as a reference to which you can return.​

2.) listen to the song

after you have mastered the song you can actually start to listen.
grow your intuition of what every instrument is doing
this may expose places you can simplify more - and get out of their way.
hippy dippy part :focus awareness to the emotion of the song.
"strecth out with your feelings, Luke"​

3.) put your feel of the music into the simplest possible line that works

this is the part that can trip players up: play technically the same line
but with a feel and intensity that follows the song.
A colleague's college instructor once explained:
"it impossible to increase musical intensity without increasing speed or volume"
free of focusing on execution, you can focus on feel
​

4.) listen to the music for appropriate places

I find that once I get a handle on 3.) , appropriate places for fills stick out like a beacon.
It's places where others need no space, where the feel of the song does not require full focus on intensity of the core bass line
​

5.) play appropriate fills

at this point I generally hear the fill in my head before I try to play it.
usually it's either some lead up to the next part or an emotional punctuation of the preceding section.
​

Sorry for the lack of actual music theory
but this is my best assessment of how I approach it.

 

[edbass1]

remember when you are checking out hot shot bass players, like sharay reed (since you named him), it's in the context of the sort of video people seek out to see awesome bass fills. In a typical band situation you might dial it back a bit more! as much as we love them because we play the same instrument, remember context of what you are seeing.

For example jaco, I love jaco's playing and music it's some of my very favourite music, but you played like that in someone elses band you'd probably just sound like a huge douche.

The players you named are known for funky, rnb type fills, which tend to be big shreds of the minor pentatonic scale. So learn that one inside out, use your ears, and work on your timing (because any fill with dodgy timing sounds bad). Take some sharay reed videos and ear out what he's doing to get an idea for how it works.

My general rule is that the busier the music is, the simpler I should be. The simpler the music is, the more I might contemplate a busier part to answer the space that is there. Of course there are exceptions, sometimes it's meant to be simple music all around, but you've just got to ask yourself what the music needs, and be prepared for band members to think they know better than you.. but this is why it's a creative thing - there's no rule for 100% of situations, just your own judgement. You want to make sure you have enough musical vocabulary to be able to play that fill you feel on the spot, rather than be left with the sense that a bass fill would have been cool there but you didn't know any scales or anything to play from

 

[dtripoli]

You and the drummer provide the rhythm and groove

Holding down the fort, being the foundation is paramount.
Being good at fills and embellishments is great but even too much of a good thing can be tedious and bad.
I went through a phase where I would learn a song then add multiple fills and thrills all over the place.
This was especially true on slow songs with minimal notes.
A pro drummer I was working with suggested I dial it back and stick to the basics. Add fills when there are no vocals and honor the space between notes. Timing is the most important. He noted that I was adding all those notes as a sort of metronome to keep myself in time. When I did dial it back it was harder to hit those few notes in a bar in perfect time than the 16 I was playing before.
Then again, I did sub for a punk band one time and the drummer told me I wasn't playing enough repetitive notes!

 

[Badwater]

It all depends on the style of music or the sound of the song. Sometimes less is more, and sometimes a little in the wrong space can sound intrusive. My background is blues guitar, and acoustic and electric blues. Everything in blues is about the fills and embellishments and the emotional connect with the parts in the song. Some players have the natural ability to fill with licks with emotional character that blends smoothly in the song, as well as intense emotional fills that connect the vocals or other instruments in a powerful way. On the other hand, there are those who play fills and licks that just don't have that dynamic emotional character. And when they play intensively they sound out of place from the music, and sounds more like someone trying to draw attention to them vs to the music. And that's with Guitar. With Bass, it can be the same way. It depends a lot on the drummer, and if he/she does the fills and embellishments. For example 2 Texas blues bands: ZZ top, and SRV (Double Trouble). With ZZ top, the drummer does the heavy lifting with transitions and fills vs SRV, where the Bass does most of the transitions and fills. But in both cases, the guitar is the show, and it does most if not all the fills and embellishments.

Again, it depends on the style of music. With blues, bass is limited way more than with Jazz or funk where the bass can be the featured instrument.