Double Bass finding my stance

[uethanian]

so i'm back to playing DB regularly after a hiatus of a few years. i'm trying to do things a bit differently this time around...i used to deal with a lot of back/shoulder discomfort while playing, and i sort of hit a wall with bowing. i've been trying to get a feel for two different stances...a gary karr with the leg touching the back of the bass, and a rabbath standing behind the bass as much as possible. sometimes i make a little adjustment and i play 10x better, other times i can't find where i was at and sound awful.

for the karr, what i gathered was to let the bass balance on its own and then scoot up to it. but when i'm there it's hard to keep my weight evenly distributed, i end up leaning heavily on my right leg. when i try to get my left leg behind the bass, the neck ends up too close to my face.

then for the rabbath i've tried raising my endpin a notch and having the bass lean backwards more...but when i really try and get behind the bass, the instrument wants to spin outwards. looking at rabbath it seems like his bass isn't turned very much, i just don't understand how he keeps it balanced. does the upper bout hit at the body centerline, or slightly off-center?

if anyone uses either of these stances i'd appreciate any guidance you can give

 

[Uyase]

Maybe you should try to get a bent endpin to better explore Rabbath's stance.

 

[David Potts]

More information needed. Are you a German or French bow(ist)? Does your bass have extremely sloping shoulders like Rabbath's? What size is it and how tall are you? These are all factors that will help us advise you.

There is a third way if you are standing that is not so far removed from the way you would sit to play. I don't think Rabbath would sit directly behind his bass, with the top of the back resting against his sternum!

The shoulders of the bass fall away to a maximum width of the top of the back. This corner, between the back and the rib, is what you lean into your left groin if you can. Stand as though you are a boxer, with left foot slightly forward and toe turned out a little. This stance, with left foot slightly behind the bass, gives you best balance. Lean the bass positively towards you then spin the it towards your right until it balances and your left thumb has least weight on it. Observe that an imaginary arrow from your chest is pointing towards the bridge and the bow will just avoid making a rosin stripe on your trouser leg. Have the nut just higher than your left ear so that the bow contact point is comfortably reached. Allow room between the bass neck, your neck and shoulder so that when you raise your hand from your side it falls comfortably on the neck with nice alignment from elbow to fingers. Avoid pronating your wrist, at least on the top three strings, because this causes tension and loses power.

This works well (or at least OK) for neck positions and will need you to stick your bottom out and let the neck come to your left shoulder for support as you go into thumb position. As you come back down from the "snow line" pull your bottom in.

I prefer to play seated. The bass is almost at the same angle to my body except the above corner is now tucked in under my right ribs. The bass leans across towards the inside of my left knee and is in a hands-free stand. If I'm going to do a lot of work in thumb position I will pull the end pin out more and lean the bass back further (I am only 5' 7" tall). Any bending I do to bring my right shoulder closer to the strings tries to come from the hip joints, with a long back and not slumping with round shoulders.

Best wishes,

DP

 

[uethanian]

hi David, Uyase - i play german on a very typical 3/4 instrument. i'm about 6'. i've been watching a lot of rabbath videos to get a feel for his stance...it seems like (assuming his end pin is 45 degrees) his bass is leaning waaaay back and resting around the navel. although he has a gut and i'm quite skinny, so there's something else to figure out. i'm considering getting a bent endpin but i'm really unsure about what height to order.

i used to play sitting when i was doing orchestral work, but it was never very comfortable (bad tailbone might be part of it). and now i'm spending my time playing old-time and middle eastern (strange combo) so i'm pretty set on standing. i'm doing mostly pizz and just practicing bowing separately on my own.

 

[David Potts]

Hi Uyase,
I am a french bow user and the stance I suggested would probably best suit that bow.

There is a fourth way of standing that you might experiment with. It puts you a little more behind the bass however you are so tall and at least you won't hit your right leg when bowing on the E string. If you only pull out a few inches of the end pin you can hook the toe or edge of your left shoe under the other side or (edge) of the bottom of the back. The bass ribs (where they are lower) will still rest under your ribs if you turn in slightly towards the bridge. If you stick your bottom out slightly the bass will lean back a few degrees and be supported in a "stand" that will leave both hands free. The bass will be more vertical and an arrow from your chest will still point approximately at the bridge. If you need a slightly longer end pin try raising your left foot on a telephone book.

This may not put you in a very comfortable position for long periods, especially if you have lower back problems. The plus is that the bass is steady and your LH can play thumb position with certainty.

Perhaps revisit sitting on an adjustable stool to bow. You are tall enough to sit (or half sit-half stand) with thighs at approximately 45 degrees to your body and both feet on the floor. This should maintain a small concave curve in your lower back just above your bottom for an alignment that will minimise pressure there, hopefully as well as discomfort.

If you have not already done so I would advise you to ask Patrick Neher ( see his site below) any questions about Rabbath, the bent end pin and the suitability for German bow.

The way of standing I described first works well with Pizz except for some pronation of the left wrist when on the E string.

Best wishes,

DP