Double Bass Finger preasure

[EAME]

finger pressure...
Are all double basses strung/tuned to require a lot of pressure on the near rigid strings?
I am just starting,but the standard tuning needs considerable amounts of effort and energy.
but Im strong and getting good hands.
Why are they like this to begin with?
and why are the really resonant frequencies (say douwn tuned from standard) that seem to sound much more bassy?

I probably need to drop my strings,I know
but im sure its not meant to be 'That which is on mine' kind of of hard
Thanks

 

[MikeCanada]

From the discussion where you mention how high your strings are from the fingerboard, I think you may be experiencing a more than typical need for pressure. A proper setup where the height of the nut and the height of the bridge are set to meet your needs makes a huge difference in the perceived difficulty of fingering notes. Add string choice into that mix, and it is quite possible for a "difficult" bass to be made into an "easy" one. Technique plays a very big factor as well, and we often talk about using the weight of your arm to help with your left hand much the same as your bow arm. Pressing the bow into the strings creates an inferior sound to allowing the weight of your arm do the work, and pressing or squeezing with your left hand adds a considerable amount of tension and speeds up fatigue as well.

Beyond those things though, the bass is a very physically demanding instrument. Even the best setup with the best strings and great technique is going to require more effort than a cello for example. Simply put, there is more of everything. More string length, thicker strings, a heavier bow, more air to move etc. There have been a number of really fantastic innovations that have made basses much easier to play: steel strings/better gut/synthetics, modern French and German bows, and pickups for applications where you need to be louder instead of playing your fingers raw are just a few examples. It is a constant balancing act between finding a way to play Faster, Higher, Stronger, while not sacrificing sound. Most bassists place sound above playability and will make very few compromises in the former to achieve the latter, which also plays a big part in how challenging the instrument is to play.

Down tuned/lower notes are one of the reasons you become a bassist. 5ths tuning, extensions, low 5 strings, hipshot tuners, and "drop" tunings are not used exclusively because the repertoire goes down to those notes. They are there because on some level, we can't seem to get low enough. I distinctly remember the first day I tuned my low E to an Eb for the final chord, the day I switched to 5ths and finally had a low C, the opera where I tuned that down to a low Bb... Eventually you learn to use those notes sparingly, but I have yet to meet a bassist that thinks the instrument goes too low. Why would they play bass in the first place?

 

[EAME]

thanks Mike
you make good points.It is basically a tough instrument to play.Literally get out of it, what you put in.It makes you appreciate the balance between all those you mention,and every time,we want good tone,and not to sacrifice it at the expense of other considerations.
Do you think many people when they first try it go '@@@#!' that's a KILLER! and never go back?
I,tho,am into this journey for good now,and I say one thing,its far more entertaining and probably cheeper than circuit training!,hh
on the downtuning,then,lower tension,am I cheating then?
we all want lower,dont we,like you say its why we like the bass!
do you know of any bassists who actually perform or any compositions that have made use of this?
I think Stravs Rite of Spring I read somewhere,but I'm thinking if theres someone who regularly drops ddddown?

 

[David Potts]

If you can afford to, or live near one, I would suggest first taking your bass to a luthier who knows about basses and their strings. It could just be the way your bass is set up. There are a number of things to check out before you worry about the strength of your fingers. Mike above has mentioned a few of them such as string heights and string qualities, but the sound post setting, the neck setting or the neck doing a "banana" are some other possibilities. Is your bass plywood, solid wood or a mix of both? Is it new or older and where was it made? Was it very expensive? These may all have some bearing on playability. The cheapest basses from China on ebay often have dead flat fingerboards of painted wood (not ebony) with no scooping out. The string clearances at each end of the fingerboard are left way too high to avoid them rattling on the fingerboard as they vibrate. Scooping (called Shooting) allows much lower string heights.

Best wishes,
DP

 

[Les Fret]

but I have yet to meet a bassist that thinks the instrument goes too low. Why would they play bass in the first place?

On electric bass there are some guys (mostly metal guys) who play with a low F#. I think that is over the top and way to low. I think a low B is the limit

As for the OP's question: as suggested bring your bass to a luthier and you will have much more pleasure when playing. Make the strings as low as possible without sacrificing too much sound. Bass playing is hard (in the beginning) but it should not be too hard. Use as little pressure as possible.

 

[MikeCanada]

There are even guys that go another string lower than an F# all the way down to a C# on electric bass. I have yet to see evidence that it can be used for anything else other than distorted rumble. The extended range guys tend to be very protective of their instruments/tunings, and that debate has been had several times on the electric side.

As for lower tunings on double bass, I do not have specific names, but there are a number of players doing it. Some have their bass tuned down permanently to a low D for example, others tune their low string down to an Eb if there is a particular piece where it would be beneficial, the hipshot tuners allow you to flip a lever and go there and back quickly etc.

Alternate tunings used to be very common on bass instruments, and our current version of 4ths starting on a low E is a fairly recent development. There are a few books out there that talk about the history of the instrument and tunings in great detail, but the Coles Notes version is that just about anything is possible.


Mike

 

[EAME]

Thanks Mike,really good input on a few things..yes it does get to distorted rumble in the end,BM guys say its 'controlled' distorted rumble,and im sure we all like some of that chaos every now and then!!
I think low D is about it for the DB,and I am getting some opinions in the 'strings' section for a lighter set.
I wil check out Coles Notes and dig around over the weekend.

Kind regards

 

[EAME]

If you can afford to, or live near one, I would suggest first taking your bass to a luthier who knows about basses and their strings. It could just be the way your bass is set up. There are a number of things to check out before you worry about the strength of your fingers. Mike above has mentioned a few of them such as string heights and string qualities, but the sound post setting, the neck setting or the neck doing a "banana" are some other possibilities. Is your bass plywood, solid wood or a mix of both? Is it new or older and where was it made? Was it very expensive? These may all have some bearing on playability. The cheapest basses from China on ebay often have dead flat fingerboards of painted wood (not ebony) with no scooping out. The string clearances at each end of the fingerboard are left way too high to avoid them rattling on the fingerboard as they vibrate. Scooping (called Shooting) allows much lower string heights.

Best wishes,
DP

Thanks David
this is the spec:

Double Bass:

• Body: Hand finished laminated wood

• Top: Canadian Spruce

• Sides: Canadian Maple

• Back: Canadian Maple

• Finish: Transparent orange-brown triple hand-lacquered and polished varnish

• Bridge: Fitted maple

• Neck: Maple with jujube ebonized fingerboard

• Tuning Pegs: Brass geared

• Endpin: Ebony

• Tailpiece: Alloy

• Body Width: 65cm (widest point)

• Nut to Tailpiece: 121cm

• Nut to Bridge: 99cm

• Body Length: 102cm

• about £400 so maybe thats cheap,but its well made,a good starting point.

• New made by Gear4Music (Invalid Link Removed)

• in the UK.

• I will get it checked over as you and Mike suggest thats probably the best thing to do,from the off.

• Let me know if this is reasonable spec at this price.

• All the best

 

[EAME]

Thanks Mike,really good input on a few things..yes it does get to distorted rumble in the end,BM guys say its 'controlled' distorted rumble,and im sure we all like some of that chaos every now and then!!
I think low B is about it for the DB,and I am getting some opinions in the 'strings' section for a lighter set.
I wil check out Coles Notes and dig around over the weekend.

Kind regards

 

[EAME]

Thanks Mike,really good input on a few things..yes it does get to distorted rumble in the end,BM guys say its 'controlled' distorted rumble,and im sure we all like some of that chaos every now and then!!
I think low B is about it for the DB,and I am getting some opinions in the 'strings' section for a lighter set.
I wil check out Coles Notes and dig around over the weekend.

Kind regards

 

[EAME]

Mike,sorry I meant low B ,not D.

 

[Les Fret]

There are even guys that go another string lower than an F# all the way down to a C# on electric bass. I have yet to see evidence that it can be used for anything else other than distorted rumble.

I would say everything below a low B is rumble. A C# string is useless and over the top in my opinion.

 

[MikeCanada]

I wil check out Coles Notes and dig around over the weekend.

Here is a great example of Canadian-isms. "Coles Notes" are the Canadian version of things like "CliffsNotes". They are a type of study guide that cover the important bits of subjects such as literature, usually in a very condensed fashion. Hence me saying "the Coles Notes version is that just about anything is possible." While I would be extremely surprised if Coles Notes had anything on the double bass or tunings for it, a fantastic resource mentioned over and over again here is Paul Brun's book A New History of the Double Bass. It is much cheaper than a lot of other reference books mentioned here, has an entire section on different tunings among other very interesting topics, and the Contrabass Shoppe in Walton on Thames in Surrey, England has it for sale for £65. You might be able to find it in a library somewhere as well.

I would say everything below a low B is rumble. A C# string is useless and over the top in my opinion.

In the context of a double bass, once you get down to a low "A" (an octave below the A string on a 4ths tuned bass) you are really pushing it. I have seen it done a few times successfully, but very few bassists and fewer instruments are capable of producing it in a pleasing fashion. Likewise, that string becomes almost useless for anything other than long pedals, as you can forget about articulation down there. Although modern string technology has helped a lot, the dimensions of the instrument and string length and other factors are huge barriers at that point, as some instruments even struggle to produce a good low C.

If you search for "extended range" over on the electric side, you will find that there are heavily entrenched sides to the debate. The spectrum of human hearing doesn't really go much lower than the A I mentioned earlier, with "optimal conditions" being down to a C an octave below the 5ths/extension C. Your brain ends up filling in the blanks based on the various overtones produced and thinks it is hearing notes in that range, so there is an argument for those extreme tunings. Then you get into talking about having strings, instruments, pickups, effects pedals, amplifiers, cabinets, headphones, monitors etc. and whether or not they can faithfully reproduce those frequencies, and it all goes downhill from there.

I do not see myself going below a low A on double or electric bass any time soon. I will use the low C of 5ths tuning when it is called for, but I have matured past the "play absolutely everything possible down the octave" stage that tends to happen when you first have access to those notes. While low F's do pop up once in a while, very little of the repertoire actually uses that low C string in 5ths. I have a 5 string electric that goes down to a low B, but it really doesn't get a lot of air time either. Used sparingly in the right context those low notes can be extremely effective and turn some heads, but if you start throwing them around all over the place they aren't as effective.

 

[David Potts]

Hi Eame, 400 Pounds is not a lot to pay. The specs sound pretty good except for the ebonised finger board. If this has not been dished slightly it would explain the string heights.

Stand behind the bass and step backwards until you can look from the scroll down the glue line between the neck and the finger board. If this is straight then so is your bass neck. You will also be able to see whether the fingerboard has bee scooped out under the strings. This scooping, or "shooting," should be more noticeable under the E string than the G string because the E moves more widely.

Cheers, DP

 

[Les Fret]

I do not see myself going below a low A on double or electric bass any time soon. I

Yeah I used to tune down my 6-string electric bass to an A for some songs. But it was too flubby and unclear. Now I only play 4-string. I tune down my electric bass E string to C once and a while and also use some open tunings. Sometimes I tune my double bass E string to a low D and sometimes my A string to a G.

Also don't like those extended range metal 8-string guitars very much that you see a lot nowadays where they have strings below a B string. They come too much into bass territory and I don't see the point in that. For me the limit is the low B (or A) on either bass and guitar.

 

[EAME]

Yeah I used to tune down my 6-string electric bass to an A for some songs. But it was too flubby and unclear. Now I only play 4-string. I tune down my electric bass E string to C once and a while and also use some open tunings. Sometimes I tune my double bass E string to a low D and sometimes my A string to a G.

Also don't like those extended range metal 8-string guitars very much that you see a lot nowadays where they have strings below a B string. They come too much into bass territory and I don't see the point in that. For me the limit is the low B (or A) on either bass and guitar.

blimey a whole 5thdown! what stuff ws you playing with that A?! Death, Carcass style [remember them?!] hh!

do you thing most DB and bass gits like to experiment with their tunings?
Imeen logically,bass should really be 'as low as you can go' rather than a 'standard' EADG that is not its lowest pitch,imo
I feel better about alternative tunings now I know you and others do this every now and then.AWSOME possibility! awesome instrument!
I need to find the 'natural' resonance of the woods used in any particular instrument,and to be able to adjust accordingly and become 'one'.
Life's too short for much rigidity,no?
Im off to check out that tuning you mentioned.......