Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
finger style question...
- Thread starter rpt50
- Start date
Ric5
Inactive
- Jan 29, 2008
- 29,772
- 30,452
- Disclosures
- I like 5, 8, 10, and 12 string basses
I don't think anyone said don't work on it.
I think that I personally said muting is important and it will inform your choices. If you're not thinking about that, I'd strongly argue that's the lazy way that I hear a WHOLE lot of people taking.
Unless you are strictly palm or left-hand muting, I can think of few reasons to strictly alternate. As an exercise, it can be useful to help you learn how to use more than one finger. But in practice I find focusing on alternating as a strict rule is problematic. YMMV.
I would start , sticking strictly to alternating fingers. - it's a good habit to invest in.
Once you are firm with this, there is no reason I can think of why you shouldn't try other things too.
Steal as many ideas as you can from other people.
Scott Devine has some good tips, but anybody who says "you must ..." is limiting you.
Billy Sheehan described the exercises/practices he does "there is no thing you must do as a player".
He describes how he plays 4/4 with three fingers.
I wouldn't dare mention myself in the same breath as the above, but some tricks I like are:
Incidentally, looking at that Billy Sheehan vid, there's an economy of movement in the dragging down from one string to the next whilst descending a scale.
Scott Devine has some good tips, but anybody who says "you must ..." is limiting you.
Billy Sheehan described the exercises/practices he does "there is no thing you must do as a player".
He describes how he plays 4/4 with three fingers.
I wouldn't dare mention myself in the same breath as the above, but some tricks I like are:
- doing a "gallop" with 3 fingers dung-dugga-dung-dugga-... (think Iron Maiden),
- doing a 4 with three fingers doubling up & down with the index finger (the index finger isn't moving anymore than the others - it's just hitting the string in both directions),
- raking up & down using three fingers (Flamenco style),
- thumb & fingers like classical guitar,
- thumb against index finger as if holding a plectrum.
Incidentally, looking at that Billy Sheehan vid, there's an economy of movement in the dragging down from one string to the next whilst descending a scale.
Alternate plucking is the "gold standard" and thus you should be familiar with it and practice it. But, as was mentioned repeatedly, there are many variations - all of which can be useful in different contexts, but some of these are also very dependent on personal preference.
Damian Erskine uses thumb, index, middle a lot and that allows him to play, in particular, "rhythmic" variations that are much harder to play otherwise. (if you are interested, you can read more about this in his book "Right Hand Drive").
Drummers were also mentioned a few times, and it is indeed a good exercise to also mimic drum rudiments, such as, e.g., paradiddles that could be transferred to plucking patterns like i-m-i-i-m-i-m-m... offering yet more versatility and flexibility for different situations!
Damian Erskine uses thumb, index, middle a lot and that allows him to play, in particular, "rhythmic" variations that are much harder to play otherwise. (if you are interested, you can read more about this in his book "Right Hand Drive").
Drummers were also mentioned a few times, and it is indeed a good exercise to also mimic drum rudiments, such as, e.g., paradiddles that could be transferred to plucking patterns like i-m-i-i-m-i-m-m... offering yet more versatility and flexibility for different situations!
Sure ..... when you're practicing techniques, you need to work on alternating fingers AS WELL AS all of the other types. But that's when you're PRACTICING. When you're PLAYING SONGS you use any and all of those learned techniques when needed. At this point I don't put a lot of thought into which finger is next... provided its working. If its not "working" then I go thru it in SLO-MO and try different techniques to see which one works best. For really quick stuff, I like using my index finger like a pick, striking the string with either side of that finger. And I practice doing that too.
Oh, but there is a test at the end: when you're in a real playing situation and find you don't have the tools you need for the job because you haven't practiced them.
There are two problems with the advice to "just do whatever works for you." First, what "works for you" now might risk injury in the long run, such as fretting or plucking with severely bent wrists. (That's probably not relevant in this case.) Second, what works for you now might inhibit your ability to improve later, since bad habits are hard to break. Strict alternate fingering is a tool that everyone should have in their toolbox to be able to call upon when needed, but if you haven't practiced it you won't have it available when you do.
By analogy, anyone can walk out onto a tennis court and bat the ball softly back and forth across the net. However, you'll quickly reach a limit as to how hard you can hit the ball and keep it in the court. To do that you have to know how to apply topspin to it, which in turn requires knowing how to grip the racket properly, etc. If you spend years just doing "whatever works," and then decide to be a competitive player, it will be much harder later to learn how to properly grip the racket and stroke the ball to be able to play better. (Don't ask me how I know.)
Get the Scott’s Bass Lessons 2-week Free Trial and take the “Technique: Deep Dive” course. It’s worth your time to learn about alternate fingering, raking, muting and a whole list of plucking hand techniques you should most definitely be intentional about. That course and the “Harmonic Layering” course changed my entire approach to the instrument.
I find myself alternating but leading with the middle finger almost exclusively. Especially on a faster shuffle, think "LaGrange". On the days I just can't seem to do it consistently, I find myself switching to a pick.
I would say always use alternating. I feel doubling-up on one finger might develop into a bad habit. That said, I'm not a music teacher, I'm not educated in bass technique, and am probably not a credible source
Jamerson only needed one
Incorporating more than you index finger will help you with speed and more complicated lines that work across the strings. If you get into slap and some funky stuff, those extra fingers will come in handy for ghost notes and pops. Start slowly, you’ll fine the technique that works best for you.
Incorporating more than you index finger will help you with speed and more complicated lines that work across the strings. If you get into slap and some funky stuff, those extra fingers will come in handy for ghost notes and pops. Start slowly, you’ll fine the technique that works best for you.
To start out -
One finger per fret, alternate IM (index middle). Do two octave scales and go up and back down alternating IM, IM, IM. It will be hard at first, but you will get to the point where it feels more natural.
This is the best way to build a repeatable technique that you can rely upon later when what you are playing gets faster and trickier.
One finger per fret, alternate IM (index middle). Do two octave scales and go up and back down alternating IM, IM, IM. It will be hard at first, but you will get to the point where it feels more natural.
This is the best way to build a repeatable technique that you can rely upon later when what you are playing gets faster and trickier.
No rules. Whatever works. Jamerson played some pretty rapid fire runs in songs using only his index finger (reportedly). Whenever I approach a song that requires fast, 16th notes, I usually opt for using a pick. Nothing wrong with using a pick... Macca did.
LOL wait until you discover "What is Hip?" I'm still working on making the notes even.
To answer-- I think the issue is not which fingers put how to get an even consistent pull with more than one finger. To me, that means getting callouses. The differences on the flesh on the ends of the fingers makes an even stroke difficult. I've tried trimming the fingernails back, squaring them off, but it's callouses that seem to do it. I play 3 fingers and I tries all combinations of 3 to try to get evenness. Story - I was in a band that did a lot of Tower of Power and one night, after three gigs in a row, I got an under the callous blister on my first finger. Ouch. So the rest of the night I was making myself play with fingers 2 and 3.. No fun..
My two cents is - instead of focusing on which fingers, try to build up callouses and an even pull. Play slowly at first. Feel how the fingers work with the strings and make adjustments until it feels comfortable to you. This is an endurance issue more than anything. When you get it steady, then pick up the tempo (always practice with a metronome or drum track). It just takes time and hours of woodshedding.
OTOH, you do know that Paul plays with a pick?
To answer-- I think the issue is not which fingers put how to get an even consistent pull with more than one finger. To me, that means getting callouses. The differences on the flesh on the ends of the fingers makes an even stroke difficult. I've tried trimming the fingernails back, squaring them off, but it's callouses that seem to do it. I play 3 fingers and I tries all combinations of 3 to try to get evenness. Story - I was in a band that did a lot of Tower of Power and one night, after three gigs in a row, I got an under the callous blister on my first finger. Ouch. So the rest of the night I was making myself play with fingers 2 and 3.. No fun..
My two cents is - instead of focusing on which fingers, try to build up callouses and an even pull. Play slowly at first. Feel how the fingers work with the strings and make adjustments until it feels comfortable to you. This is an endurance issue more than anything. When you get it steady, then pick up the tempo (always practice with a metronome or drum track). It just takes time and hours of woodshedding.
OTOH, you do know that Paul plays with a pick?
If you are playing live and run into something you dont know how to handle, you have far greater issues than 1 finger or 2.
There is no right or wrong in what fingers to use or how many. This is the topic.
Some great players use 1 and only 1. Some use 2 only. Lots use a combo. Some only use their thumb. Its all about trying things out to see what works best for you.
Telling someone they must use alternate picking exclusivly is just bad advice.
I cant even tell you what i use. I do not think about my right hand when I play. I would have to video to tell you.
