finger vs. pick

[Rockinjc]

Good call Pac I knew he wouldn't do it.

jc

 

[bassman210]

i think it depends on the type actions your gonna do while you play. i mean if i could, i play with a pick all the time cause of the sound it gives(it lets you cut through the mix) and because of the speed you can get. but stuff where you have to mosh and jump more it helps to play with your fingers cause its hard to control the bass when your jumpin and playin a pick at the same time. all i ramble on long enough now
peace out

 

[bassplayer420]

i started out using pick just cuz i liked to play fast punk songs then i moved to fingers cuz its better to play more intricate songs like sublime/red hot chilli, but it depends on the kind of music you like, i like the reggae/punk/ska, so i use both, but mostly finger- laterzzzzzzzz

 

[lister423]

Originally posted by Rockinjc
Good call Pac I knew he wouldn't do it.

jc

Just what I expected, moronic insult deleted - mod. So, let's see: can you find me anyplace, on this forum or elsewhere, where a fingerstyle player has criticized pickstyle and is then asked for a sample of his music so we can see what he's about? No??? Of course not!!! Because you and Pacman are hypocrites with a double standard. As soon as I made a sarcastic comment about Flea (and only because someone else said "don't you dare" play his stuff with a pick) suddenly I need to prove something to you? Why? Because I admittedly play pickstyle, I'm not ashamed of it and I'm not afraid to say I like it better.

Like I said, fire away. It won't matter. I'm not a teacher with something to teach you. I'm not one of your beloved wankers. I just play solid basslines and earn a living doing it.

 

[Pacman]

Well, here's the scoop lister. You've violated the usage agreement (twice now, read the rules). One more and you won't be posting in technique again.

I didn't question your abilities because you said you used a pick. I questioned your abilities because a) you said that an established band were buffoons and b) you sound completely ignorant. Quite often people come in here and make big statements. The problem is, on the internet it's easy to be a 14 year old tool and say that you're a studio pro who's work is to do uncredited overdubs. That's a great story, by the way. You've managed to sound like you've got a gig and yet add no credibility to your story whatsoever. I asked you to post something where we can all get an idea of what you're really all about. But I think most of us know already.

As far as me having a double standard, no score there either, chief. I told the original poster that as long as he was starting out, might as well learn both. And if I had pick chops as good as AJ, I'd use 'em - when it was appropriate. But the truth is, the average fingerstyle player has far more versatility in tone than does the average pick player.

As for the rest of your sensless rant, I'll just leave it alone. Just remember, champ, read the usage agreement. If you violate it again, you're out of here.

 

[Richard Lindsey]

Originally posted by Pacman
But the truth is, the average fingerstyle player has far more versatility in tone than does the average pick player.

I'm not getting into the fracas between you, lister, and whomever, and I don't defend flouting the usage agreement. However, as a fingerstyle-only player for 30 years, I think the statement quoted above is plain wrong. It's not "the truth" at all, it's only your opinion. I don't play bass with a pick by personal choice, not because there's any particular inherent superiority to fingerstyle.

 

[lump]

Originally posted by lister423

Like I said, fire away. It won't matter. I'm not a teacher with something to teach you. I'm not one of your beloved wankers. I just play solid basslines and earn a living doing it.

Translation: "I don't even play the bass."

Fingers vs. pick debate aside, this guy just sounds like someone (most likely a guitar player) who likes to argue. Next week, he'll have a different username and will be preaching the virtues of fingerstyle. Whee.

Ah, the joys of the internet...

 

[lister423]

Originally posted by Pacman
Well, here's the scoop lister. You've violated the usage agreement (twice now, read the rules). One more and you won't be posting in technique again.

I didn't question your abilities because you said you used a pick. I questioned your abilities because a) you said that an established band were buffoons and b) you sound completely ignorant. Quite often people come in here and make big statements. The problem is, on the internet it's easy to be a 14 year old tool and say that you're a studio pro who's work is to do uncredited overdubs. That's a great story, by the way. You've managed to sound like you've got a gig and yet add no credibility to your story whatsoever. I asked you to post something where we can all get an idea of what you're really all about. But I think most of us know already.



As far as me having a double standard, no score there either, chief. I told the original poster that as long as he was starting out, might as well learn both. And if I had pick chops as good as AJ, I'd use 'em - when it was appropriate. But the truth is, the average fingerstyle player has far more versatility in tone than does the average pick player.

As for the rest of your sensless rant, I'll just leave it alone. Just remember, champ, read the usage agreement. If you violate it again, you're out of here.

"moronic insult deleted" -- now who's tossing insults?

It's called a project studio. There's no "great story" to it, project studios have always existed. Two guys own this one, I work for one of them, no big deal. But my mistake -- I let you focus the discussion on me, and I responded by telling you what I did. That's not what the discussion was about.

The truth is, I expressed an opinion that's 180 degrees from most of these discussions. And you and your buddies can't answer it. You expect to be able to have an open field run with your opinion but you get in an uproar over a genuine contrary opinion. Instead of answering it, you call it ignorant and senseless (insults are OK when you're the moderator) and attack me.

Now you're saying it's just the "average" fingerstyle player who is more versatile. Nice backtrack. Very well, that's your opinion. It's certainly not fact.

BTW, if I were a 14 year old I'd be saying "ur" instead of "you are", I wouldn't know how to capitalize, and I'd be saying everyone was "gay" if they didn't agree with my adoration of the latest slap hero. But even if I were 14 and not a bassist, you would still be avoiding the fact that you have a double standard and can't take it when the tables are turned on you.

 

[lump]

Originally posted by lister423
The truth is, I expressed an opinion that's 180 degrees from most of these discussions. And you and your buddies can't answer it.

Answer what? That you don't know what the hell you're talking about? I think you've established that pretty well by yourself at this point.

And what the hell is a "project studio?" Is that like a "studio project," but said with a French accent to make it sound more impressive? Pro-JAY Studi-OH. Yeah, I like the sound of that.

I'm working on one of them too.

 

[Pacman]

Originally posted by lister423

Jazz by its origin it ought not be concerned with orthodoxy. But you'd have to be living under a rock not to know that jazz today is governed by a rather rigid orthodoxy. It's of no concern to me anyway, nor to the music-buying public since jazz sells so poorly.

hmmm, and I thought I bought a house with the money I've made playing bass. Thanks for setting me straight - I guess it's a rock. I play jazz 4 nights a week and I'm governed only by my imagination and technical limitations, there are no "rules", rigid or otherwise.


I would love to, but I'm a studio pro whose work involves uncredited overdubs and otherwise fixing others' inadequate work by getting a good sound to tape (I use my pick or my fingers as necessary). It's not my property to post.


this implies you make your living in studios. I have a project studio in my house, so does half the planet. Are you really trying to tell me you make your living at fixing amatuer recordings? Don't try to snow the snowman, as someone here once said.


Of course I could record something at the studio for you, but why? Are you one of Flea's friends? I doubt it. Your true colors are showing. You wouldn't ask an anti-picker to back up his views, would you? No, of course not.


yeah, my true colors are showing. I've asked many fingerstyle players to back their words up, hang around here long enough and you'll probably see it. My true colors are this: you wouldn't make such an outrageous claim if you had actual experience in the matter, so I'm asking you to show me how 'versatile' you can be with a pick. But you've decided not to lend credibility to your claim.


The truth, Pacman, is that you're willing to throw a few crumbs of approval at pick players as long as they properly respect the undeniable superiority of fingerstyle, worship Jaco, and ride on the back of the bus. Perhaps someday you'll open your eyes and see that the bus has passed you by and that you and your fellow travelers don't control bassdom, never have and never will. Fire away, it doesn't matter in the real world.

The truth is, lister, that I've never said anything derogitory about pick playing, and that if it's your bag, great. But I've also said, and will continue to say, that pick playing is not as versatile as fingerstyle. Let me illustrate: pick playing - pick tone can be varied by how hard you pick and where you pick. Fingerstyle - sound can be altered by where you pluck, how hard you pluck, if you pluck with the side of your thumb, the pads of your fingers, the pad of your thumb, slap style, etc etc.

seems like an easy conclusion to me.




but maybe you need more time.

 

[purple_haze]

But the truth is, the average fingerstyle player has far more versatility in tone than does the average pick player

Be that as it may, IMO pick tone is far superior to finger tone, even if finger tone is more "versatile". Quality not quantity.

But that's probably because I play a lot of rock and metal.

 

[Pacman]

Originally posted by purple_haze


Be that as it may, IMO pick tone is far superior to finger tone, even if finger tone is more "versatile". Quality not quantity.

But that's probably because I play a lot of rock and metal.

now, see, this is a great example of how to say what you want to say. (thanks, haze) Not only does he say what he wants to say, he backs it with why he thinks that way. You could take lessons, lister.

 

[Sheep Man]

Originally posted by lister423
BTW, if I were a 14 year old I'd be saying "ur" instead of "you are", I wouldn't know how to capitalize, and I'd be saying everyone was "gay" if they didn't agree with my adoration of the latest slap hero. But even if I were 14 and not a bassist, you would still be avoiding the fact that you have a double standard and can't take it when the tables are turned on you.

Woah woah woah woah woah woah woah...
Ok, now THAT struck a nerve.
Now you're stereotyping all 14 year olds as complete and utter morons who can't capitalize, are too lazy to type properly, and call everything 'gay'?

Dude, you need to get a life!
Arguing that a pick is better than fingers...is understandable, if you can give proof of how it's better, and why it's better.
Essentially stating that Pacman's a dufus for always arguing that fingerstyle is better than picking isn't a very smart move, either. Remember, he's a moderator, you're new here. First impressions really count, especially online when you can't see the person's face (unless it's their avater here at TB) and don't know anything at all about them. It's kind of like picking up women, I would assume. If you're nice, and kind & gentle and all that GOOD stuff, you're more likely to hook up with them than if you go up to them and ask "D'you wanna have sex now, or later tonight?"

As for the whole pick/finger debate...
does it really matter? If you like one thing, then say I like pick/fingerstyle better because I personally feel that...yadda yadda ya. Or at least something along those lines, but do it like purple_haze. If you're expressing a personal preferance/statement/value...SAY SO.
Right now I could say, "(American) Football is for losers who can't play rugby!" And if I don't at least put IMO before or after that statement, then I will more than likely get pounded by all the football playing/loving people here.

Finally...
If you're a studio pro, then I don't envy you. Honestly, I couldn't care less if you were a studio pro or if you were Flea or Vic Wooten or Anthony Jackson or anyone famous. You're sounding like an ass, when you could've simply stated that your opinion was your opinion, instead of going off about how you hate Pacman for doing his job and stating his preferance.


Oh yeah, and for the record, I'm 17. Already, from what you've been saying here, I can say that I and a lot of people here see myself as more mature than you.

 

[Pacman]

Originally posted by Lovebown
I can't really see any pros with using pick rather than the specific "pick tone" you get. I think speed is better accompished by fingers, but hey thats me.

Have fun,
/lovebown

you know, Lovebown, I responded to this before, to show that you can have serious speed with a pick. but I failed to agree with you on the tone thing....

 

[Lovebown]

Originally posted by Pacman


you know, Lovebown, I responded to this before, to show that you can have serious speed with a pick. but I failed to agree with you on the tone thing....

Eh..?

Sorry I don't understand what you're trying to say

/lovebown

 

[purple_haze]

now, see, this is a great example of how to say what you want to say. (thanks, haze) Not only does he say what he wants to say, he backs it with why he thinks that way. You could take lessons, lister.

From moi?

Thanks anyways.

 

[lister423]

This is soooo predictable, and therefore lots of fun. Go back to my original post, and tell me it's anything other than just my opinion which is contrary to most of yours. But most of you just can't take a difference of opinion, so you attack me instead. You can't take it that somebody actually feels that fingerstyle is less versatile than pickstyle. So you attack me instead. You may tolerate the pick, as long as everyone is clear that it's inferior, but when I disagree, you attack me instead of my opinion. Like I said, fire away, I expected it.

Now we have our moderator telling us how he built his house by playing jazz...well, if that's true, more power to you, but I'm talking about RIAA sales figures, not your personal situation. And since I'm not you, I won't even ask you to prove it by posting your income sources online.

Those of you with studio access and the proper scope should take a look sometime at the frequency response of a rigid pick vs. your fingers, played with equal force. Not that I expect it to open your eyes.

Well, I must go work on my piano. I'm pulling off all the keys. After all, musn't put anything between the strings and my fingers.....

 

[bobaweeka]

The jazz/choir teacher at my school say that "real bass players don't use picks." How narrow minded. All depends on the style if you ask me.

 

[Pacman]

Originally posted by lister423
This is soooo predictable, and therefore lots of fun. Go back to my original post, and tell me it's anything other than just my opinion which is contrary to most of yours. But most of you just can't take a difference of opinion, so you attack me instead. You can't take it that somebody actually feels that fingerstyle is less versatile than pickstyle. So you attack me instead. You may tolerate the pick, as long as everyone is clear that it's inferior, but when I disagree, you attack me instead of my opinion. Like I said, fire away, I expected it.

ok why don't we do that?[/b]

Originally posted by lister423


(a) Fear of dropping picks is about the lamest excuse I've heard for not using one.

looks like an attack to me, opinion or not.

(b) You can do so much more with a pick. It's much more versatile and offers far more opportunity for personal expression.

agreeably an opinion, although expressed as fact, and with nothing to back it up. Can you show us something to back up that claim, as I've done before for fingerstyle? If you can't your opinion is baseless.

(c) No technique is essential...unless you're a jazz robot who adheres to rules of jazz orthodoxy.

jazz robot? I guess that's another opinion, and not an attack....

(d) Is that a threat? Oh wait, I get it, you mean pick as in select. No, I won't dare select a Chili Peppers song, I don't like emulating buffoons.

another attack, although this was not on a Talkbass member. And since the peppers don't really need do be 'defended' from you, we'll leave that alone.


Now we have our moderator telling us how he built his house by playing jazz...well, if that's true, more power to you, but I'm talking about RIAA sales figures, not your personal situation. And since I'm not you, I won't even ask you to prove it by posting your income sources online.

I'll type this slowly so you'll understand. I made the house comment because you inferred I was living under a rock. (clue: that's called sarcasm)


Those of you with studio access and the proper scope should take a look sometime at the frequency response of a rigid pick vs. your fingers, played with equal force. Not that I expect it to open your eyes.

Well, I must go work on my piano. I'm pulling off all the keys. After all, musn't put anything between the strings and my fingers.....

having spent a little time with both recording and mastering, I'll give you a tip. freq response graphs are meaningless. You can't graph an aesthetically pleasing balance of fundamental and overtone with spectrum analysis, you've got to use your ears. And most people's ears tell them that you can get more variation in tone without a pick.

 

[purple_haze]

The jazz/choir teacher at my school say that "real bass players don't use picks." How narrow minded. All depends on the style if you ask me.

That's sad, especially coming from a "teacher". My teacher, fortunately, despite being a jazzer is a very cool, open-minded guy and encourages pick usage. Especially in heavy metal.

EDIT: And if you're worried about dropping picks, then get some rice paper and superglue about a centimetre squared to both sides of the pick. It'll absorb the sweat and keep your grip. Works like a charm.