Fingerboard Piezo for Fretless Slap?

[Mister_GothFrak]

I have three electric fretless basses that I want to modify.

I am inspired by uprights & gothabilly / punk. Specifically, this guy. He's got an EUB with a pickup for the slap sounds that goes through a specific signal chain of a limiter, EQ to cut the lows out, and reverb.

Any recommendations for getting a piezo in my bass guitars to do something like that?
(see profile for list of instruments -- may or may not be current.)

 

[JonathanPDX]

I have Ghost saddles on my 5-string tenor bass and they sound fantastic. We ran an active preamp for the normal pickups and then a buffer for the piezo and a 3-way toggle so I can run mag/piezo/both and each pickup has it's own volume knob, too.

I don't know if it would get your tone goal but it's certainly a doable setup. The question, of course, would be whether all the cost and effort wouldn't be easier spent just setting up another bass specifically for slapping.

 

[Mister_GothFrak]

I have Ghost saddles on my 5-string tenor bass and they sound fantastic. We ran an active preamp for the normal pickups and then a buffer for the piezo and a 3-way toggle so I can run mag/piezo/both and each pickup has it's own volume knob, too.

I don't know if it would get your tone goal but it's certainly a doable setup. The question, of course, would be whether all the cost and effort wouldn't be easier spent just setting up another bass specifically for slapping.

Oh, the cost isn't a factor. lol.

The goal here isn't for "slap tone" in the way most people would probably think. It's specifically for hand/finger sounds. Literally the sound of the slapping. Like how Robert Russel has, I will still have the main piezo & magnetics going separately in the signal chain handling the notes.

thanks, tho.

 

[JonathanPDX]

Oh, the cost isn't a factor. lol.

The goal here isn't for "slap tone" in the way most people would probably think. It's specifically for hand/finger sounds. Literally the sound of the slapping. Like how Robert Russel has, I will still have the main piezo & magnetics going separately in the signal chain handling the notes.

thanks, tho.

If cost is really no factor you might look into Michael Manring's Hyperbass. He gets a lot of percussive and interesting slap sounds on his fretless basses, in part because there are pickups built into cavities in the body itself.

 

[ardgedee]

It's specifically for hand/finger sounds. Literally the sound of the slapping.

Most piezo bridges I've tried can already pick up more string and finger noise than I like.

If I wanted even more than that, I might start by getting a high-z buffer and a bulk package of cheap piezo disks, and experiment by sticking one or two at a time to various parts of the neck and headstock. When there's a position that sounds good then talk to a luthier about how to build good-quality piezos into a new neck so the electronics aren't in the way any more.

 

[SteveCS]

I have three electric fretless basses that I want to modify.

I am inspired by uprights & gothabilly / punk. Specifically, this guy. He's got an EUB with a pickup for the slap sounds that goes through a specific signal chain of a limiter, EQ to cut the lows out, and reverb.

Any recommendations for getting a piezo in my bass guitars to do something like that?
(see profile for list of instruments -- may or may not be current.)

...

If I wanted even more than that, I might start by getting a high-z buffer and a bulk package of cheap piezo disks, and experiment by sticking one or two at a time to various parts of the neck and headstock. When there's a position that sounds good then talk to a luthier about how to build good-quality piezos into a new neck so the electronics aren't in the way any more.

I remember way back in the day reading about Matthew Seligman recording bass for Thomas Dolby's 1984 album "The Flat Earth", and experimenting with stick-on Piezo 'bug' transducers all over the instrument to find unique combinations of sounds beyond just the notes of the strings. My point is that if you are looking for something unique, original or innovative there is probably no single off-the-shelf solution. I think your biggest challenge will be installation - getting a transducer behind the fingerboard of a string bass is a lot easier and comparatively non-invasive/non-destructive compared to most electric basses. If any of them are bolt-on necks you could always aim for burying something in the heel joint.

 

[sunbeast]

I don’t think think a fingerboard piezo will be particularly useful on a typical fretless electric bass because the fingerboard and neck are too stiffly mated to really get much brightness or excitement out of it no matter how hard you slap it with strings- at best I’d expect a kind of dull “thud”. It works on an upright because the fingerboard extends out well beyond the neck and creates a sort of percussive plank with its own acoustic resonance that the whole bass construction helps amplify. Unless you are able to get that bright slap sound acoustically from your bass guitars it is unlikely that a piezo will be able to pick it up much either. It would be similar to trying to amplify a solid body bass using a piezo disk attached to the body, just not enough excitement to get you much from it. Maybe a free-hanging fingerboard extension to slap against at the end of the neck might work better, though not likely to have the depth of an upright fingerboard extension. A small condenser microphone with a lot of processing and mixed very low to avoid feedback might be a better approach IMO. I’ve heard a couple really nice recordings of electric uprights (ones without the fingerboard extension of an actual upright) with a fingerboard mic mixed in that sounded pretty nice- those particular examples weren’t going for the “slap” sound though, just some added “air” and weight that bridge piezos couldn’t give alone.

 

[Mister_GothFrak]

A mic is a good idea!

There's plenty of loud, slappy rubber band noise acousticly. Without headphones or a loud amp, it overpowers the actual notes. lol. When using tapewounds, that is.

 

[kodiakblair]

Doug Wilkes did something similar decades back, 1981 maybe 1982.

Model was called the Wilkes Percussive, top notch bit of kit. Honduras mahogany body, Schaller hardware. Fingerboard has two brass plates below E/A, D/G, under the plates are piezo elements.

https://reverb.com/uk/item/48779535-wilkes-percussive-fretless-bass-1982-custom-1982-metallic-orange

 

[sunbeast]

Doug Wilkes did something similar decades back, 1981 maybe 1982.

Model was called the Wilkes Percussive, top notch bit of kit. Honduras mahogany body, Schaller hardware. Fingerboard has two brass plates below E/A, D/G, under the plates are piezo elements.

https://reverb.com/uk/item/48779535-wilkes-percussive-fretless-bass-1982-custom-1982-metallic-orange

That’s a good idea! I’m curious if there are seasonal issues with the metal plates causing buzzing though

 

[kodiakblair]

I’m curious if there are seasonal issues with the metal plates causing buzzing though

None that I'm aware of, seasons here in the UK don't jump from one extreme to the other.

 

[sunbeast]

None that I'm aware of, seasons here in the UK don't jump from one extreme to the other.

Lucky! Where I live gets so dry during the winter that any sort of different material used for fretlines or similar on a fretless will tend to bulge and buzz (and acoustic guitars NEED constant humidification or they will tend to fall right apart!)

 

[kodiakblair]

@sunbeast

Normal net etiquette would have me acknowledge your reply with a 'like', hardly an appropriate response to somebody facing exploding instruments

Instead I'll send my best wishes nothing untoward occurs and all your acoustics remain intact