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Double Bass Fingerings

#21
Square Bear said:
an example of this - the 2nd to last bar of the opening passage in marriage of figaro. i've used the fingering 1-1-2-2-4-4-1-0 for the E-D#-E-F#-G-F#-E-D pretty effectively. very counterintuitive, but somehow it sounds even for me.
Click to expand...

I am just playing this overture. It is hard to find a good fingering for the whole piece, also because there are so many options.
I have been trying to find the 'fastest' fingering for this specific passage.
Right now it is: 2,1,2,2,4,2,1,0
because of the speed you don't have any time to think, it has to go automatic.

I totally agree with you about the coordination between left and right hand.

@Tom Gale: thanks for clarifying. I am going to experiment with it a bit more today.
 
#22
Does anyone think it would be worthwhile to organize fingering suggestions, bowing suggestions, etc. by piece on this forum?

For instance, we could start a post called Beethoven 6th, and put in the various suggestions for the different spots, so as someone works through the piece in the future, they can see the opinions in one place and join the debate.

I think this could be an invaluable bass resource.
 
#23
The classical fingerings I see for scales in various books tend to employ the same fingerings ascending as descending, but I can see now that it's more complex than that. Tom's 1-2, 1-2 example with a 1/16th note passage made a light go on. And Square Bear's comments were thought-expanding, too.

Yeah, I think CT DB's suggestion of a "Fingerings" section under DB is a good one. And thanks, Tom and Square Bear. Great thread!
 
#24
Les Fret said:
I am just playing this overture. It is hard to find a good fingering for the whole piece, also because there are so many options.
I have been trying to find the 'fastest' fingering for this specific passage.
Right now it is: 2,1,2,2,4,2,1,0
because of the speed you don't have any time to think, it has to go automatic.

I totally agree with you about the coordination between left and right hand.

@Tom Gale: thanks for clarifying. I am going to experiment with it a bit more today.
Click to expand...

i've used fingerings like that too. the issue isn't speed for me, it's keeping everything precise and even. also, i don't use the fingerings i suggested before all the time. it just all depends on if it's working for me at the time. which brings me back to my point - a good fingering is one that works for you. it's good to have a personal system so that you can be consistent, and simandl is a good start for developing a system (though simandl fingerings are not nearly sophisticated enough to be considered a complete system). it's also good to not get locked too tightly into any one way of doing things, as you can develop unwanted tendencies with your pitch and rhythm when fingerings become too "easy" for you to continue being scrupulous about such things.
 
#25
CT DB said:
Does anyone think it would be worthwhile to organize fingering suggestions, bowing suggestions, etc. by piece on this forum?
.
Click to expand...

Yes, that would be great! maybe there should be a sticky topic only for discussing fingerings.
I like to discuss fingerings. As you can can see in this discussion there are lots of possibilities and there are many opinions that are all valuable.
 
#26
an example of this - the 2nd to last bar of the opening passage in marriage of figaro. i've used the fingering 1-1-2-2-4-4-1-0 for the E-D#-E-F#-G-F#-E-D pretty effectively. very counterintuitive, but somehow it sounds even for me.[/QUOTE]

OK. Keep in mind this fingering was written before you were born for a standard 1930 bass with thick gut strings and high action - both bridge and nut - to avoid a "buzz" on the fingerboard. Try the passage 2,1,2/1,2/4,1,0 and set your metronome to 152 - the / = a shift. Notice NO repeated fingerings and that equals speed.
The passage that really bugs me is about 7 lines down - that ascending
A B C# D D#F# E. The printed 14/124/41 under a slur is weird and bad music - that awful slur 4/4 on the D# to F#.
It should be 14/ 12/1*4*2* - * being open hand or 4 finger tech.
PS Start the Overture 2 1 2 1 2 - not the printed 4 2 4 2 4. This aint 1940 anymore.....
Tom Gale
 
#27
i use 3 1 3 1 3 for the beginning personally. the fingering i suggested before was not my idea, it was dennis trembly's. i don't think he plays on a 1930's set up with gut strings though. i've used it successfully in auditions too, it's plenty fast enough. again, fingerings are very personal things and you should do whatever works best for you. great discussion we have here, i like the idea of a fingerings sticky.
 
#28
Tom Gale said:
OK. Keep in mind this fingering was written before you were born for a standard 1930 bass with thick gut strings and high action - both bridge and nut - to avoid a "buzz" on the fingerboard. Try the passage 2,1,2/1,2/4,1,0
Click to expand...

I don't know which fingering you are referring to because in my score there a no fingerings. Your fingerings are interesting and I have to try them out. The shift from 2 to 4 (g, f#) seems a little odd to me at first.
 
#31
Tom Gale said:
The passage that really bugs me is about 7 lines down - that ascending
A B C# D D#F# E. The printed 14/124/41 under a slur is weird and bad music - that awful slur 4/4 on the D# to F#.
It should be 14/ 12/1*4*2* - * being open hand or 4 finger tech.
PS Start the Overture 2 1 2 1 2 - not the printed 4 2 4 2 4. This aint 1940 anymore.....
Tom Gale
Click to expand...

the 1st passage you describe I play with 14/124/41 fingering. But I don't slur the whole line. I start with an upbow and then a downbow on the F#. So this way you don't hear the slide of the 4th finger.

The start of the overture I play with 42424, there is not much difference I think between that and 21212
 
#32
For the A B C# D D# F# E I use 1/ 1 4 / 1 2 / 4 1...I just really feel anything I can get in IV position gives me the best intonation-al reference. I use that split bowing too ( mentioned by Les Fret).

I use the 4 2 at the opening, but I can see how the 2 1 would be a little more muscular as you are using the strongest and most independent fingers on the hand.

A lot of my fingerings are just slightly modified O. Zimmerman.
 
#33
Another idea... About a year ago, Mark Morton and I gave a talk at the I.S.B. convention at Penn State. It concerned the next 6 notes after the passage under discussion - A,B,C#,D,E,F natural. The printed fingering is usually 14/24/24 starting on the upbeat. We referred to the F as a "money note" (Mark's term). We explained that notes like that - high point of a phrase, dramatic sudden change of harmony, top of a crescendo, etc. are the types of musical excitement that will cause people to put down some money to hear them being played. Hence - "Money Notes". Everybody understood and then I dropped the bomb! I mentioned that the fingering on the F was wrong because you don't play money notes with the 4th finger. Everyone was suddenly awake! 2nd finger is the best choice and Mark played it both ways. The above fingering and then 1,4/1,2/1,2!! BIG difference! Try it on any money notes you may be playing.
P.S. The title of the presentation was, "Phrasing and Phingering in the Twenty-Phirst Century".
Tom Gale
ASODB.com
 
#34
Good stuff Tom!

what is the reason for playing money notes with the 2nd finger instead of the 4th?

what fingering do you suggest for the 2nd and 3rd bar?
(d,c#,d,e,f#,e,f#,g,a,g#,a,g#,a)

right now I am doing: 42,0141/142424 (first two notes on A, rest on D string). Upbow on d, downbow on a.
 
#35
another option is to go across to the g string for the g a g# a g# a (0 2 1 2 1 2). it all depends on the sound of your bass though. on my instrument, the notes at the top of the phrase are clearer on the g string. also, i start up bow on the first bar and do bars 2 and 3 in one down bow. then 4 and 5 up and 6 down. sometimes i start down and do it all backwards from that. i think it sounds less belabored with less bow changes.

about the other passage later on (the "money note" one) - i think 4 sounds just fine on that note, but i would put the shift earlier so that the last 3 notes are in one position:
a b c# d d# f e with 1 4 - 2 4 - 1 4 2. i think you should be able to accent (vibrate) the f sufficiently with whatever finger makes technical sense to use in any situation. again, do what is most comfortable to you. most players use 4 on that note and i think it works just fine.
 
#37
Les Fret said:
Good stuff Tom!
what fingering do you suggest for the 2nd and 3rd bar?
(d,c#,d,e,f#,e,f#,g,a,g#,a,g#,a)
right now I am doing: 42,0141/142424 (first two notes on A, rest on D string). Upbow on d, downbow on a.
Click to expand...

42/01414/1/21212 The reason I do that last shift to the 21212 is to set up the next 5 notes - A,G#,A,A#,B. I go to an open hand fingering -2,1,2,3,4 and back to closed A (1), etc. Although - you could finish like you did - 42424 and then shift to 2 for the A and then use the open hand fingerings above.
Tom Gale
 
#38
No one seems to have suggested the simplest option (to the original post). What Simandl would have done and I don't think can be improved on: Going up: E-01124; A-01124; D-01124; G-0124,124,124. Going down I'd reverse it exactly. Simandl might have preferred 4421 on the lower strings for the descent, but he was always the pedantic pedigogue.
 
#40
Les Fret said:
That was already suggested by me.
for this passage I go to the G string:
playing either 21124104 or 21244104 (last f# on d string)

I like your different approach to these fingerings. It keeps you open minded.
Click to expand...

I don't quite understand, but I guess I did gloss over a few posts. Some suggestions, like 121212 ascending, or 1421 on the lower strings descending, I find rather bizarre! Note: I'm just talking about the E chromatic scale, not Figaro.
 

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