Finishing Maple.. PLEASE HELP

[ryan morris]

So, a few days ago I received an old Spector bass that had an amber burst finish.. Since I'm not big on painted basses I thought I'd strip it down and let the natural maple shine through..

Well, I started finishing it with Formby's High Gloss and noticed these white spots that looked like open pores.. They were only in a few spots so I thought I must have done a bad job sanding..

I stripped the previous days work off and sanded better.. down to 320.. Then I bought and used a conditioner on the bass.. I also re-thought my idea to go natural and went with an ebony finish from Woodburst that I rubbed on with a quality paper towell..

Again, they were there..

So, I sanded most everything away.. and went for round THREE.. I sanded down to 320 again... but this time, while applying the Formby's I used a couple different steel wool pads to try to build up a "slurry" to fill those spots.. I went for a couple applications thinking that this should solve it after some build up.. and nothing...

What can I do to get rid of these spots?

Also.. I would like to keep the bass looking as white as possible, the stains (and oils) seems to darken the Maple up quickly.. I was thinking of ordering a Titanium Dioxide pure color from Woodburst.. but maybe I just need to finish it in a different way..

Please advise.

 

[black_labb]

So, a few days ago I received an old Spector bass that had an amber burst finish.. Since I'm not big on painted basses I thought I'd strip it down and let the natural maple shine through..

Well, I started finishing it with Formby's High Gloss and noticed these white spots that looked like open pores.. They were only in a few spots so I thought I must have done a bad job sanding..

I stripped the previous days work off and sanded better.. down to 320.. Then I bought and used a conditioner on the bass.. I also re-thought my idea to go natural and went with an ebony finish from Woodburst that I rubbed on with a quality paper towell..

Again, they were there..

So, I sanded most everything away.. and went for round THREE.. I sanded down to 320 again... but this time, while applying the Formby's I used a couple different steel wool pads to try to build up a "slurry" to fill those spots.. I went for a couple applications thinking that this should solve it after some build up.. and nothing...

What can I do to get rid of these spots?

Also.. I would like to keep the bass looking as white as possible, the stain seems to darken the Maple up quickly.. I was thinking of ordering a Titanium Dioxide pure color from Woodburst.. but maybe I just need to finish it in a different way..

Please advise.

looks quite open grained, you sure its maple? almost looks like a light walnut. is soft maple darker than rock maple?

i'd just use a clear grain filler then finish it, but sounds like it isnt working correctly. maybe your sanding through the grain filler/need one that penetrates further.

 

[Rattman]

I also think the grain is not sealed... Those photos are nice 'n clear. Thats really nice wood, but I've never seen walnut of that dark shade before.. every piece of instrument-quality maple I've ever seen is about 3 - 4 shades lighter than that.

 

[waseok]

Do these spots came back at the same part of the instrument? or Randomly on the body?

 

[ryan morris]

The bass is a Kramer era Spector and I'm nearly positive they used maple on all of those.. Those pictures are with a couple coats of tung-oil finish on there.. but yeah, like I mentioned, it gets dark quickly... and I'm not a huge fan of that... I either want it very light colored (like I'd expect maple to be..) or very dark.. so it looks like there's an actual stain on there.. Ha.

The spots come back in the same part of the body. The neck, which I'm positive is Maple, doesn't show the spots but they are very annoying.. ha.

I didn't think that I'd have to use a grain filler on this wood.. ha.. I then thought that the combination between the conditioner and the steel wool/oil application should seal those spots.. Maybe I'm using a failed technique.. or maybe I need a better filler..?

Any filler suggestions?

 

[ryan morris]

Oh.. the dark color is interesting in that it only looks really dark (and you can only see the spots) from about 25% of viewing angles.. (from the top or directly straight on in the proper(/improper) light...

I've been looking things up on here (and google) all day and feel that I've wasted another day of work.. ha.

Hopefully I can get this looking nice soon.

And here's a picture of the back of the bass.. It give s clearer idea on how the wood actually looks under most viewing angles.. (thought it may look a slight bit lighter in this picture (because of the huge hanging fluorescent above)).

 

[Rattman]

Oh sorry... MY bad.. because you certainly did mention "stain" in the OP.. anyway, sure hope you can get the finish to settle down the way you want it to. I'm sure you'll soon find the correct sealing/staining applications and all will be stable and spot-free.

 

[ryan morris]

Yeah, there is a little bit of the woodburst ebony stain left on there.. but not much (because it was nearly all sanded out... There's just enough to cause a couple little black specks here and there.. but since it's a slower drying oil (tung oil and pigment), it should (in theory) be fine regarding these white spot problems... right?

But thanks, I'm really hoping to get it spot-free soon so I can actually start to play this thing.. I plugged it in to my headphone amp for a total of 30 seconds.. saw that the new EMG BQC system worked and immediately broke it down.. Ha. Poor bass never saw it coming.

 

[jordan_frerichs]

was also curious about maple finishes. am doing a flamed maple fingerboard. what is the best way to really make the figuring really look good, while being an appropriate fingerboard finish?

 

[SDB Guitars]

Yeah, there is a little bit of the woodburst ebony stain left on there.. but not much (because it was nearly all sanded out... There's just enough to cause a couple little black specks here and there.. but since it's a slower drying oil (tung oil and pigment), it should (in theory) be fine regarding these white spot problems... right?

I'd recommend sealing it with a clear sealer, even if it's a vinyl sanding sealer or something, to get the pores filled up to flush, then levelling. As an aside, I personally wouldn't recommend the Formby's tung oil products. They reformulated several years ago, and it hasn't been as good since.

If you want a *great* tung oil varnish, use Waterlox. *Much* harder and more durable than the Formby's.

was also curious about maple finishes. am doing a flamed maple fingerboard. what is the best way to really make the figuring really look good, while being an appropriate fingerboard finish?

This is OT, but I'd recomend poly or lacquer. Lacquer is easier to apply, poly is more durable. You might consider a wipe-on poly, since you are pressed for time, IIRC...

 

[ryan morris]

I'm going to be away for a week and I might as well order the good stuff. I've read a lot of positive things on Waterlox, so I think I'll purchase that... but which one would suit me best (original sealer/finish or high gloss)?

Also, which sealer should I get? There are so many to choose from. (would this be redundant if I just bought the original sealer/finish from waterlox?)
-BEHLEN Pore-O-Pac Paste Wood Grain Filler
-BEHLEN Water-Based Grain Filler
-McFadden’s™ Pore Filler
-Z-poxy
-ColorTone Waterbase Grain Filler
... or some other one.. (or not one at all)..


Also, I keep reading and it doesn't seem very common to have to fill Maple because it's a very small pored wood.. How common of a problem is this?

Would things be different if I used a brush to apply the Waterlox?

Do I need to strip all of the Formby's off before I do anything else?

Is it possible to keep trying the Formby's but maybe use a brush or wet sand (220) technique to try to really force the oil down in these trouble spots? Maybe I just haven't built up enough to really work down into those spots..

 

[SDB Guitars]

If you use Waterlox, I'd probably use their sealer... if you use McFadden's water-based lacquer, I'd use their sealer.

The Colortone sealers are compatible under pretty much *any* finish...

I can't give you any further advice on the Formby's, as I haven't used it in almost 10 years... I hated working with it then, and saw no reason to continue with it.

 

[62bass]

I'm going to be away for a week and I might as well order the good stuff. I've read a lot of positive things on Waterlox, so I think I'll purchase that... but which one would suit me best (original sealer/finish or high gloss)?

Also, which sealer should I get? There are so many to choose from. (would this be redundant if I just bought the original sealer/finish from waterlox?)
-BEHLEN Pore-O-Pac Paste Wood Grain Filler
-BEHLEN Water-Based Grain Filler
-McFadden’s™ Pore Filler
-Z-poxy
-ColorTone Waterbase Grain Filler
... or some other one.. (or not one at all)..

The Waterlox is high quality stuff and much better than poly.

Strip off all the poly before you use it so it will fill the wood and adhere best.

I think it's unusual to have to fill maple pores as they're usually very small. You must have an unusual piece of maple. It may take forever to fill the grain of your bass with just the sealer-finish. You should use a grain filler. I'd use an oil based and tinted filler.

A brush is fine for the Waterlox sealer-finish, but you can also apply it with a cotton cloth. I like to let the first coat really sink in to the wood so I keep it wet for 15 or 20 minutes before wiping the excess off with a cloth. Waterlox recommends just brushing the stuff on and not wiping it off, but their main experiences with it seem to be on floors. It'll take longer, but you'll get a finer finish if you wipe off the excess.

 

[ryan morris]

alright.. So, I just started working on this bass again.

I ordered some Waterlox, Timber Mate (really nice waterbased filler), and a lot of sandpaper.

I have spent at least 10 hours sanding the bass down.. 120, 150, 180 and now 220. (I was using the theory that maybe I just rushed the previous sanding and needed to spend more time..)

Well, I just wiped it with a damp towell (to see what it might look like with oil).. and they are still there. Maybe only 1/3 as many of those pores showed up this time and they do seem smaller.. but they are still there and it is really disheartening because I doubt that they'll fill up with this filler. They just seem SO tiny and I don't know why they stand out so white.. I'll take a couple pics tomorrow.. but any other suggestions?

Maybe I should just try the filler and see what happens.. or maybe the Waterlox will really do the trick.. but otherwise.. what is the deal with this maple? If it doesn't work I'm thinking about just having it painted white.. Even though I've already spent over $100 on products to refinish the bass thus far.. AGH!

 

[ryan morris]

So.. the two above and the first of these show what the bass looks like with one coat of waterlox on there..

I sanded to 220 and brushed the oil in for 10 minutes. The wood was dark immediately.. The spots showed up immediately.

I just did the front and let it sit for two days. Then sanded down a little with 220 then a couple little spots with 320 (just to see if it made a difference.. Nothing noticeable..

The other pictures are to show how dark the maple is compared to a maple/rosewood neck... Notice that the top horn front is sanded back down a little.

What can I do? This is driving me nuts.

 

[ryan morris]

one more.. against the un-finished (raw) back..

 

[62bass]

one more.. against the un-finished (raw) back..

At this point, all I can think is that there is still some of the original filler (maybe polyester or epoxy) still in the pores. They won't absorb the oil of course, so won't darken to match the wood. If that's the case then you'd have to sand it out.

I stripped an old (1978) ash bodied Fender once. Had to use a heat gun. The heat stripped off the finish fairly easily but it wouldn't lift the filler Fender used. I had to do some serious sanding to get it all off. I started with 40 grit (from a ceramic belt sander belt) and that took the wood down (after a few hours) enough to remove the last of the filler. Then I sanded it back to smooth enough to finish by working up the grits-80 grit, then 180, then 220, then 320.

I can't say for sure that's the problem you have but it's a possibility.

To hide them you could try wiping on a coat of a light coloured gel stain, like Woodkote or Old Masters. Working it into the pores, wipe off the excess with a cloth just before it starts to set up wiping across the grain, not with thegrain, then when dry, sand lightly with 320 grit to remove any left on the surface. Hopefully the gel stain will stay in the pores and darken them enough to match the wood when coated with your finish.

 

[ryan morris]

62bass, Sounds like a good possibility as to the cause of this problem.. Ha. I have noticed some decent results from the extra sanding (referencing the first picture I posted against the newer picture that I posted (looking down the top cutaway).

I wish I could just sand with my electric sander but since it's so curved, I haven't been super lucky.

Maybe I'll give it another day of some good hard sanding and see what happens.. Off to buy some more paper.. ha.

 

[62bass]

62bass, Sounds like a good possibility as to the cause of this problem.. Ha. I have noticed some decent results from the extra sanding (referencing the first picture I posted against the newer picture that I posted (looking down the top cutaway).

I wish I could just sand with my electric sander but since it's so curved, I haven't been super lucky.

Maybe I'll give it another day of some good hard sanding and see what happens.. Off to buy some more paper.. ha.

Yes, give it a try. Go down as low as 80 grit to remove wood fast, then work your way back up. I use the aluminum oxide in open coat whenever I can. Don't waste money on garnet paper. It wears out way too fast.

I hope it works.

 

[Rattman]

62bass, Sounds like a good possibility as to the cause of this problem.. Ha. I have noticed some decent results from the extra sanding (referencing the first picture I posted against the newer picture that I posted (looking down the top cutaway).

I wish I could just sand with my electric sander but since it's so curved, I haven't been super lucky.

Maybe I'll give it another day of some good hard sanding and see what happens.. Off to buy some more paper.. ha.

Hello Ryan...

I wondered a couple of times if this thread would ever be brought back to life. I'm glad you decided to update the guys with your latest issues and successes.. Looks like you've made some progress.. maybe indeed that original filler/finish was that deep afterall. I'm about to sand down the maple fingerboard of my '92 Strat right away.. its getting in a bad way along the edges.. looking forward to seeing your end product Ryan..