First B-15 Experience

[Marial]

Hmmm.... might have to investigate the Portaflexes... Could give me a good reason to jetison the BA300.

 

[JimmyM]

Hmmm.... might have to investigate the Portaflexes... Could give me a good reason to jetison the BA300.

BA300's cool but I'd rather have a PF rig. Hits my buttons.

 

[Marial]

BA300's cool but I'd rather have a PF rig. Hits my buttons.

I guess I'll be heading to the local dealer at some point in the new year then.

 

[pfschim]

I agree that the B15 has limited tonal range, in that it is only good at reproducing sounds from 20-20,000 Hz. Heavy and low powered by today's standards, I get.

I'm guessing the B15 does not deliver much of anything below 80-100Hz, or above 10-12kHz (Baxandall treble EQ control is something like +10/ -30db @ ~5kHz).

And the specs on the B15N shows ~ 96lbs (for a 25w 1x15 rig!)

lots of love here for these little (but heavy and underpowered) bits of bass playing history. Used several myself over the years, but it is not the final word on bass amplification by any stretch of the imagination.

enjoy!

 

[JimmyM]

You're right that the highs drop off after 10k in the B-15 head. But the lows only drop off slightly and it does 20hz easily. The lows from the speaker go much lower than 80hz, though...I'd say closer to 40 as its 10db down point. And the speaker also cuts off everything past 4k, so it's all good to me...that's low and high enough. And the 96 lbs is for the 70's B-15's. The 60's models weigh much less, probably closer to 75. But who cares? B-15's aren't for those looking for 20-20k flat frequency response or those who obsess over having light gear. They aren't the final word in bass amplification, but they are the FIRST word in bass amplification, and I don't think anyone's come close to surpassing it in the tonal category. Just my opinion...as well as a few hundred thousand other bass players

Bass Gear Mag 4th issue has a full bench test of Tom's B-15NF... [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[jnewmark]

There was for sale in the classifieds at one time, a B15 Preamp, that I think was homebuilt. I always wondered about this, as I think the whole B15N " experience " is definitely a marriage of amp and cab that produces that wonderful tone. Even swapping out 15's , I noticed a slight change in tone from the original.

 

[fishtx]

I play a Genz-Benz now, which is almost laughable. I've played plenty and owned a few amps in my life, including tube amps. Mesa 400+, Peavey Roadmaster Festival Series, Ampeg V4-B, plenty of solid state Sunns, and old Acoustics. But now I don't even see why other amps exist.

The B-15 is a great amp, and it definately has that "thing" it does that's very cool. but it's under powered for "most" of the gigs I do. Our stage volume is stupid loud sometimes, and the B-15 just couldn't hang. I like the headroom and tonal flexibilty I get from the Genz Benz gear I use.

Your comments above about GB being "almost laughable" and "I don't even see why other amps exist" to me is a little short sited and doesn't make much sense, if you have really owned and used the amps you mention. Most amps have their own personality (so to speak), and it would be a very boring "Bass World" if there was a single personality to deal with don't you think?

But having said that, I use the VT Bass pedal to get a similar B-15 sound for some tunes we play (both original and covers).

 

[edbass]

I'm guessing the B15 does not deliver much of anything below 80-100Hz, or above 10-12kHz (Baxandall treble EQ control is something like +10/ -30db @ ~5kHz).

And the specs on the B15N shows ~ 96lbs (for a 25w 1x15 rig!)

lots of love here for these little (but heavy and underpowered) bits of bass playing history. Used several myself over the years, but IN MY OPINION it is not the final word on bass amplification by any stretch of the imagination.

enjoy!

Fixed it for you!

I don't claim this to sound _exactly_ the same as a B-15, but ... the B-15 emulation on the Tech 21 VT Bass Pedal sounds pretty damn good. I use mine through the line-in jack on an Ashdown ABM 500 EVO Series II head and into a Schroeder 1515L and it sounds remarkably good with a flatwound strung P-Bass.

IMHO the Aguilar Tone Hammer 500 can get close to the b-15 - the drive circut rounds out the tone prety well so if you turn up the drive knob it gets closer to the b-15 tone. People say that the Aguilar is not as bright compared to the GB, but it does give that gritty tubey sound pretty easily. You can pair that with a 1-12 cab and you have a good gigging rig.

I have never played a B-15, but the Ampet B100R, which I own, and the B50R, which I also own, supposedly do a great SS imitation of the B-15 amp. I love mine with my Hofner Icon basses with LaBella flatwounds!

The B-15 is a great amp, and it definately has that "thing" it does that's very cool. but it's under powered for "most" of the gigs I do. Our stage volume is stupid loud sometimes, and the B-15 just couldn't hang. I like the headroom and tonal flexibilty I get from the Genz Benz gear I use.

Your comments above about GB being "almost laughable" and "I don't even see why other amps exist" to me is a little short sited and doesn't make much sense, if you have really owned and used the amps you mention. Most amps have their own personality (so to speak), and it would be a very boring "Bass World" if there was a single personality to deal with don't you think?

But having said that, I use the VT Bass pedal to get a similar B-15 sound for some tunes we play (both original and covers).

Also, and margarine tastes like butter. And aspartame tastes like sugar, Miracle Whip tastes like mayonnaise, and turkey burgers taste like beef.

IMO nothing really sounds like, or can truly capture the experience of an all tube amp, and the B15 has its own niche even within the all tube amp world. However, as with the culinary examples above, to utilize the “real deal” you have to be willing to endure the saturated fat of butter and mayonnaise, the calories of sugar, and… The weight, low output, and lack of features of a B15 Portaflex.

Of course that doesn’t mean you have to agree that it’s the “ultimate” tone monster, or that you even have to like the way a B15 sounds.
I suppose the hackneyed phrase “it is what it is” comes to mind, but as far as I’m concerned, as with any all tube amp; if you’re serious about wanting/needing the tone and nuances of a B15, you really need to get a B15.


Merry Christmas, or whatever holiday salutation is relevant, to everyone!

 

[shrimpchowmein]

I guess what I mean about my GB being almost laughable is that if I'm after the B15 sound then the GB is pretty far off the mark. I do love that amp and won't be getting rid of it anytime soon. It's just a funny amp to have when wanting the B15.

I should probably go back and edit my posts, being quoted is rarely a good thing on TB.

 

[Rob Martinez]

Fixed it for you!












Also, and margarine tastes like butter. And aspartame tastes like sugar, Miracle Whip tastes like mayonnaise, and turkey burgers taste like beef.

IMO nothing really sounds like, or can truly capture the experience of an all tube amp, and the B15 has its own niche even within the all tube amp world. However, as with the culinary examples above, to utilize the “real deal” you have to be willing to endure the saturated fat of butter and mayonnaise, the calories of sugar, and… The weight, low output, and lack of features of a B15 Portaflex.

Of course that doesn’t mean you have to agree that it’s the “ultimate” tone monster, or that you even have to like the way a B15 sounds.
I suppose the hackneyed phrase “it is what it is” comes to mind, but as far as I’m concerned, as with any all tube amp; if you’re serious about wanting/needing the tone and nuances of a B15, you really need to get a B15.


Merry Christmas, or whatever holiday salutation is relevant, to everyone!

I have no problem with this assessment. I am quite satisfied with the "margarine" flavor of the B50R or B100R. They work fine for me. Someday, if I get to play through a B-15, and just can't live without it, I will try and buy one. Even then, it will stay in my music room, and I will gig the easier to transport B50R. I played a gig last night and no one said "Your bass tone is more fat-free than real butter." They did say the bass sounded great and so did our band. That is good enough for me!

 

[edbass]

I have no problem with this assessment. I am quite satisfied with the "margarine" flavor of the B50R or B100R. They work fine for me. Someday, if I get to play through a B-15, and just can't live without it, I will try and buy one. Even then, it will stay in my music room, and I will gig the easier to transport B50R. I played a gig last night and no one said "Your bass tone is more fat-free than real butter." They did say the bass sounded great and so did our band. That is good enough for me!

That's the important thing, and it only really matters if YOU are the one it sounds good to.

My B15 doesn’t go along for gigs; I mostly play in fairly "boisterous" rock bands and generally play without PA support, but with all this “25 watts” and “underpowered” talk it’s obvious that some haven’t actually used one.
Mine has a JBL D140F in it, and it’s plenty loud enough to hold its own with an unmic’ed drum kit, even with a heavy hitter, and I wouldn’t hesitate to use it in a smaller venue if the kit was going acoustic. I know JimmyM says he has used his B15 unsupported in a live band setting in good sized venues using an extension cab.
I think persons with a modern transistor rig mindset may underestimate the SPL potential of a healthy Portaflex.

That said, as far as portability; there is no getting around the fact that the B15 feels like it’s full of water when it’s time to move it!

 

[JimmyM]

I'm not going to lie...there are times I really appreciate having a Micro VR stack and a VT Deluxe But the B-15 really isn't a big deal to move around...not like an SVT. And I absolutely think people underestimate its ability to deliver volume. It's not a quiet amp, especially with two cabs. And I think the rest of you play way too doggone loud

Merry Chrismakwanahanzikah!

 

[Ric Vice]

I'm not going to lie...there are times I really appreciate having a Micro VR stack and a VT Deluxe But the B-15 really isn't a big deal to move around...not like an SVT. And I absolutely think people underestimate its ability to deliver volume. It's not a quiet amp, especially with two cabs. And I think the rest of you play way too doggone loud

Merry Chrismakwanahanzikah!

When I was just starting out as a bass player in college and got my first wedding band gigs, out agent, who also owned the Anderson Music Center sold me my first real amplifier a
Casino 200, so actually my first true bass amp was a solid state amp. I got tired of lugging that monster around and my close friend, Rocky Rose at, yeah you guessed it, Rocky's Music Center, sold me the B-15N(C) in 1972.
I still have that amp nearly 40 years later. It blew the output transformer in 1985 and I had to wait about 20 years, until I got the news from a close friend that he had scored a NOS transformer from the Ampeg parts stash at St. Louis, Music, just as all the parts were being packaged and sent overseas to China, by Loud Technologies. With a new transformer, tubes, caps, a handle, dolly attachment screw, an rubber feet it's ready to go. Jimmy's right you guys really don't need all the volume you think you do.

Ric

I only giged out with that amp for about 8 years and have used Walter Woods amps ever since. There were a few side trips along the way to Roland (Orange) Cube 60 land and GK 200MB land, but I got rid of both those amplifiers, while the B-15N always had a place at the Inn.

 

[fishtx]

well, I believe I do need the extra power (ie. volume) in the primary band I play with. As I stated before, a B-15 just wouldn't cut it in most live situations I am in. Could we turn down?...sure, but it ain't happ'nin...lol

I'm not knocking the B-15 in the least. It's a great amp and I love the tone and the overall vintage "coolness" that oozes from it. But for me, it just wouldn't do everything I need a "gigging" amp to do.

 

[JimmyM]

Ya, I've heard from dudes in Texas that the bands are super loud there, like 100w guitar amps turned all the way up. Ya, in those situations I'd bring the SVT or PF350. Try that on a Bowzer show and see how long you last

 

[pfschim]

golly edbass, must we do the "in my opinion" dance.

here let me fix this one for you

Fixed it for you!

Also, and margarine tastes like butter. And aspartame tastes like sugar, Miracle Whip tastes like mayonnaise, and turkey burgers taste like beef.

IMO nothing really sounds like, or can truly capture the experience of an all tube amp, and the B15 has its own niche even within the all tube amp world. However, as with the culinary examples above, to utilize the “real deal” you have to be willing to endure the saturated fat of butter and mayonnaise, the calories of sugar, and… The weight, low output, and lack of features of a B15 Portaflex.

Of course that doesn’t mean you have to agree that it’s the “ultimate” tone monster, or that you even have to like the way a B15 sounds.
I suppose the hackneyed phrase “it is what it is” comes to mind, but as far as I’m concerned, as with any all tube amp; if you’re serious about wanting/needing the tone and nuances of a B15, you really need to get a B15.


Merry Christmas, or whatever holiday salutation is relevant, to everyone!

My B15 doesn’t go along for gigs; I mostly play in what is in my opinion a fairly "boisterous" rock bands and generally play without PA support, but with all this “25 watts” and “underpowered” talk, in my opinion, it’s obvious that some haven’t actually used one.
Mine has a JBL D140F in it, and in my opinion it’s plenty loud enough to hold its own with an unmic’ed drum kit, even with a heavy hitter, and I wouldn’t hesitate to use it in a smaller venue if the kit was going acoustic. I know JimmyM says he has used his B15 unsupported in a live band setting in good sized venues using an extension cab.
In my opinion persons with a modern transistor rig mindset may underestimate the SPL potential of a healthy Portaflex.

So, of course this all 'in my opinion", as are just about all your own statements. Other than the factual spec about weight, size and wattage. So, lets please not get too silly with the "in my opinion" editing.

In my 40 years of playing I have used various Ampeg fliptop amps; B15N '69, B15N '72, B12, B18 and one of the SS fliptop versions. I am also a pretty committed tube/tube tone guy, so I do not fit your tag of someone who has a "modern transistor rig mindset".

All I was originally reacting to was the OP's comment (yes, his opinion too) about all other amps being pointless. Kind of a silly thing to say, don't you think ?

Have a great Merry ChrismakwanahanzikahFestivus to all on TB. In My Opinion The greatest Bass players forum on the web.

peace

 

[pfschim]

You're right that the highs drop off after 10k in the B-15 head. But the lows only drop off slightly and it does 20hz easily. The lows from the speaker go much lower than 80hz, though...I'd say closer to 40 as its 10db down point. And the speaker also cuts off everything past 4k, so it's all good to me...that's low and high enough. And the 96 lbs is for the 70's B-15's. The 60's models weigh much less, probably closer to 75. But who cares? B-15's aren't for those looking for 20-20k flat frequency response or those who obsess over having light gear. They aren't the final word in bass amplification, but they are the FIRST word in bass amplification, and I don't think anyone's come close to surpassing it in the tonal category. Just my opinion...as well as a few hundred thousand other bass players

Bass Gear Mag 4th issue has a full bench test of Tom's B-15NF... [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Merry ChrismakwanahanzikahFestivus to you JimmyM.

Thanks for the spec info on the B's. I have used them many times in the past and my memory does not support what you are saying here. But, being an old fart, my memory is not that great and so I am not going to argue with the resident TB guru of the B15 on specs.

Have a good one and I hope the Fat Guy in the Red Suit is good to you this year.

peace

 

[JimmyM]

All the different models have some quirks here and there, so they won't match up identically but same basic idea.

And of course, Merry Shibiirhitnskeke;;g4977gs to you too, bro!

 

[fishtx]

Ya, I've heard from dudes in Texas that the bands are super loud there, like 100w guitar amps turned all the way up. Ya, in those situations I'd bring the SVT or PF350. Try that on a Bowzer show and see how long you last

exactly Jimmy...it's about adapting to the environment and whats required of you for the music.

As far as bands in Texas being super loud...meh...probably no different than anywhere else really...consider this...most of the musicians I know here are transplants...lol

 

[David Jayne]

I play a Genz-Benz now, which is almost laughable.

You know, there's nothing wrong with Genz- it's extremely high-quality stuff. But tonally, your Genz and the 'ol B-15 couldn't be more different- that's all. It's no surprise that you've found something that sounds better, to you.
That said, you might be very surprised if you tried a Genz Streamliner. It's really, really different.