First Build - "Lucifer"

[Jeff Siddall]

Ah, there we go! That explanation makes sense to me. Must be just the right amount of simple, easy to understand words to get into my simple, not understanding easily brain.

So the downside you identified is mitigated by the use of stainless frets, yes?

Well, I wouldn't really call it a downside as a properly cut nut has more/less the same wear issues to consider. But SS wears very little so for the zero fret, plus the first through 21st (or however many you have) it should last the life of the instrument. I figure if I am putting that much work into building something I don't want anything to be wearing out anytime soon!

 

[dwizum]

A zero fret means the entire pressure of the string is concentrated on a really narrow spot - fretwire is much narrower than a nut front to back, and the round surface of the string against the effectively flat crown of the fretwire is a much narrower contact patch side to side as well. Versus a nut, which is wider, and has slots with round bottoms, so the round string is in contact against a much much greater area.

All that said, I wouldn't really be too concerned about wear on a zero fret. Worst case you just replace it, which would take a few minutes.

 

[Jeff Siddall]

A zero fret means the entire pressure of the string is concentrated on a really narrow spot - fretwire is much narrower than a nut front to back, and the round surface of the string against the effectively flat crown of the fretwire is a much narrower contact patch side to side as well. Versus a nut, which is wider, and has slots with round bottoms, so the round string is in contact against a much much greater area.

All that said, I wouldn't really be too concerned about wear on a zero fret. Worst case you just replace it, which would take a few minutes.

Yes, good point about the nut slot: if the bottom of the slot is round (as it should be) then the pressure is also spread out somewhat.

I don't know about the contact patch along the thickness of the nut. Most people seem to cut the nut slot so it tapers away from the string to guarantee that the witness point is at the fretboard edge of the nut. Either way, I agree with you, wear is probably a small problem. If you are worried about wear and replacing the zero fret later it is possible to remove the tangs before installing. Since the zero fret is always pressed down by the strings it won't pop out when the strings are up to tension.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

My Steinberger has stainless frets and a stainless zero fret, and neither show any appreciable wear after 35 years of rounds, no wear at all on the zero fret, because the strings don't really move there. I may try stainless frets on my next build, though I keep reading they are harder to cut and install.

 

[Beej]

IME, Zero fret wear on a bass is one of those things that sounds like something to be carefully considered, but in the real world is virtually negligible. Bass tuning is infrequent when compared to a guitar, and there is also a lot less motion from bends and playing, even in a heavy player. Though I've replaced lots of zero frets in guitars, I've never found the need in a bass, even old worn 60s instruments. YMMV

 

[TerribleTim68]

So, a small update on this build. I did manage to get the small fretboard chipout patched and the grain matches fairly well. At least, enough to be somewhat convincing. What I'm not happy with is the end of the fretboard, I don't feel like it blends very well there at all. I'm trying not to stress over it though.

As for next steps, I can't tell you how badly I want to bang frets in this thing. But, I have decided to go with StewMac fretboard oil for my finish on it and need to order that. I also don't feel confident that I have enough fret wire, so I think I'm gonna order another pack of that too. I ordered 6' of pre-raduised wire, but it comes in sticks that are (roughly) 8.5" long. With Lucifer being a fan fret, the frets are longer than you'd think and the majority of them tend to be in the 3" long range (factoring in extra hanging out before trimming), so I can't get a full 3 frets out of each "stick". I have 9 sticks, which means I can conceivably do 18 frets. Lucifer is also a full 24 frets. So yeah, I'm just gonna spend $9 and order another pack when I place my fretboard oil order, then I'll have them on hand for the next one when it ends up short too, right?

Tempering my desire to charge forward is literally the hardest part of this whole process.
On the topic of banging in frets, anyone ever done it with a wooden mallet? I happen to have one on hand suddenly.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

Nice mallet, but maybe better suited for whacking a small hard wood block used to actually set the frets. The ideal tool is probably a small deadblow hammer loaded with lead shot, but I've seen plenty of videos of people using what they have on hand, up to and including a carpenter's hammer. I'd worry about denting the fretboard with that mallet, but if you have better eye-hand coordination than me, have at it!

 

[Gilmourisgod]

On another note, I put the Stewmac fingerboard oil on After installing frets, don’t know if it makes a difference. I figured it was better to keep the oil out of the slots so they wouldn’t be too tight, but that may be wrong.

 

[TerribleTim68]

On another note, I put the Stewmac fingerboard oil on After installing frets, don’t know if it makes a difference. I figured it was better to keep the oil out of the slots so they wouldn’t be too tight, but that may be wrong.

That's an interesting thought. I was searching last night for info on fretbaord finishing, because to be honest my brain wasn't aware they were even finished. I thought fretboards were just left alone, which was why they dry out over time and need to be treated with mineral oil or lemon oil or whatever people say they think is the best thing to use. So, after some time using the search function here on TB (I know, who does that?!?!?) I landed on a couple post comments that steered me to the StewMac product and one by Bruce that said "make sure all your finishing is done before you fret". So I don't know. I'm looking for some pro guidance here before I do something rash.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

When in doubt, trust Bruce, not me! He’s the Pro. If I did it “wrong”, I seem to have got away with it, no issues so far. I really like the Stewmac stuff, I think it’s just linseed oil with some kind of dryer, but it dries hard and not sticky, looks like you just oiled It, and stays that way. I think I put three coats on, but just keep going until it doesn’t look like it’s soaking in anymore, let it dry it and then hand or machine buff it, nice satin sheen.

 

[TerribleTim68]

When in doubt, trust Bruce, not me! He’s the Pro. If I did it “wrong”, I seem to have got away with it, no issues so far. I really like the Stewmac stuff, I think it’s just linseed oil with some kind of dryer, but it dries hard and not sticky, looks like you just oiled It, and stays that way. I think I put three coats on, but just keep going until it doesn’t look like it’s soaking in anymore, let it dry it and then hand or machine buff it, nice satin sheen.

Yeah, it seemed stupid expensive. But I can get it from the Amazonians and hopefully I'll have plenty for other basses too. Might as well I guess, I have zero experience with any other product.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

Yeah, it seemed stupid expensive. But I can get it from the Amazonians and hopefully I'll have plenty for other basses too. Might as well I guess, I have zero experience with any other product.

EVERYTHING at Stewmac is stupid expensive..... and then they tack on $10.00 shipping and handling to make it stupider. The quality of everything they sell is superb, but unless it's something only they have, I shop around... hard.

 

[I-Am-The-Slime]

EVERYTHING at Stewmac is stupid expensive..... and then they tack on $10.00 shipping and handling to make it stupider. The quality of everything they sell is superb, but unless it's something only they have, I shop around... hard.

Agreed, SM is $$, but their stuff is usually of good quality, while the cheap stuff can be hit or miss, IME. I think most stuff SM sells is also on Amazon, so, if you have a Prime membership, you can save on shipping that way, maybe... YMMV, as you know. For instance, to get back to nut files, I found the SM files on Amazon for $75.25 (free shipping, for me), but on the SM site they're $72.51 and they add on a discount to bring it to $65.26. So, with $10 shipping from SM, I would save 1 cent buying from Bezos

I ended up going for the file$. I used the tip cleaners with a holder (bought on eBay) previously, but, after using that a few times, I am not a great fan. They wear pretty quick. Moreover, they flex and, if you want to get persnickety, you want your slots to be level, not convex, in order to have a clean witness point.

Aaaanyway... just my amateur $0.02

 

[dwizum]

Bruce turned me on to that stewmac product too and I love it. I use it for any non-maple fretboards and also a lot of other nicknacks (wood bridges on acoustics I'm building, wood handles on jigs, etc). It is pricey but you need so little, the bottle I have will probably be handed down to my grandchildren before it runs out.

I would wipe it on before fretting. It's much easier than wiping around all the frets, and as a bonus - if you glue your frets in, having a fresh coat of oil on the board helps a ton with cleanup. It's pretty much impossible to actually build up thickness with this product so I don't think there's any worry about the slots getting filled to the point of being too tight. I was a little worried about that too at first but it's a non issue.

 

[S-Bigbottom]

I'm looking for some pro guidance here before I do something rash.

TerribleTim68
Member Since: Aug 21, 2019

HAPPY ONE YEAR TALKBASS ANNIVERSARY!


It is the paper anniversary so we got you this.

 

[TerribleTim68]

Oh wow! Only 1 year on here and you guys already got me talked into building basses from scratch!

 

[TerribleTim68]

Just a real quick update as we head into the next 3-day weekend. I'll be heading out to the woodshop tomorrow after work, get back to work on this thing Saturday morning.

I've got fret wire in hand. I've got StewMac fretboard finishing oil in hand. I'm thinking I will finish sand the fretboard and then apply finishing oil to it, then fret it. Not that one way is better than the other, it just seems easier to apply the oil (in my mind) without frets in the way.

We will see how far I get on that. I really wanna get body wings glued on so I can start shaping them beyond a rough, rough shape. Once it physically "looks" like a BSO I think the wife will start allowing some of the bigger purchases. She's fairly excited about the progress I've made to this point, considering that I really thought I'd be nowhere close to this far along in this time frame. It was May 23rd when I officially began "working" on this build. Everything prior was planning. Hopefully this weekend moves me even farther forward.
Stay tuned!

 

[Rolling Thunder]

probably gonna be in my nightmares

All builds that you meticulously plan are

 

[TerribleTim68]

The Saga Continues.....
Another 3 day weekend arrived, and the wife and I headed to the woodshed again -

Back To Work.....
Or, as Matt from Texas Toast likes to say -
"Enough with the bulls$#t talk, let's get to work!"
So the first thing to focus on was getting that fretboard ready for frets! That means sanding......and sanding......and a bit more sanding! I brought it up to 400 grit, wiped some water over it to raise the grain, and boy did it! I tried to sand the grain back with the 400 grit, but it just wasn't having it and I decided to step back to the 150 and bring it back up again. I'm not sure if the 400 just wasn't cutting like I thought it would, or maybe the grain really stood up, or what. But at some point I just asked myself "Do you want this to be right, or 'good enough'?" and then I decided that there's no shame in stepping back a couple steps before moving forward. Rushing this thing will just destroy all your effort, so do it right.

Finishing Time.....
After a lot of sanding, I was finally ready to put some of that sweet, sweet StewMac fretboard finishing oil on this thing....

OMG! I'm in love with that grain!

Don't Fret Over It.....
I'm not sure why hammering in frets was something I was so concerned with, but for some reason this step had me all twisted up. So at some point I just said "You know what? Let's just do this!" and started tapping them in. I watched a lot of videos on this, from Crimson, Texas Toast, various other peeps I watch, and pretty much everyone said "tap in one end, tap in the other end, then bring the middle down" so that's how I did it. And what do you know, it worked! -

Yeah man, frets! All hanging out the sides and everything! Just like a real luthier would do! So then I set about trimming ends and doing a little rough file work so this thing could be handled without poking 48 holes in your hand, and I ended up with something kinda like this -

I have not beveled the ends, I have not crowned them, I have not even leveled the frets. I just got them in and rough filed the ends down. That's it. But man, I'm kind of impressed with me right now.

Body Wings.....
I decided at this point I could put the body wings on. I was kind of running out of things I could accomplish and wanted to see some more progress, so yeah, why not? Into the clamps it goes! -

Yup, I saved those off-cuts from the wings just for this reason! Clamping cauls!!!
I may have stepped out of order a bit, because looking back at it now I see I'm gonna have some issues with putting side markers on it up past that body wing, but I'll deal with that when I get there.

So Where Are We Now.....
A day later, and I think I officially have my very first BSO! -

The pencil lines across it were to help me line things up in the clamps. But yeah man, it looks like a thing now! Sadly, I forgot my body template at home so I could not run it through the router to finalize the body shape.
But it does look bass-like on a stand! -

I need to purchase a plunge router anyways, so maybe I'll work on the body shape one I acquire one of those. For now, I've got some final sanding to do on the headstock and maybe sand the face of the body and get the neck-through portion totally level with it on the front and back, those things can happen regardless of the outside edge of the body.

On Another Note.....
So I had been asking around here on TB about jointers and thinking of purchasing one. During this trip I decided to take a peek at the machine under the cover that my boss had referred to as the "finger slicer". See, he lost his pointer finger at the first knuckle and apparently this has been sitting there, covered up, ever since -

So yeah, that's apparently a Craftsman jointer sitting under the blood stained cover. I guess he had the guard propped open to do something, wasn't looking directly at it and got his pointer finger a bit too close. She doesn't look great, but I plugged it in and it fired right up, spun the blades and everything. I put a square edge to the fence and it is spot on 90 degrees. I think with a little cleaning, and of course operating it with the guard in place, I may have solved my jointer situation.

And Then.....
I figured I'd get brave and really start digging into this. The boss said they used to have a full on built-in vac system, with custom plumbing to every machine and all that. But the rats turned it into a really bitchin' habitrail system, so they ripped it all out. But the vac is still sitting around. So I drug it out, plugged it in and hit the on switch. She fired right up! Clearly it was "sucking" because it inflated the top bag and everything. Now, again, she doesn't look pretty, but I think I can salvage this thing -

By my estimations, it just needs new bags (they have a couple small rips in them), a good cleaning and then I can just run some flex-tube from it to whatever tool I'm running rather than trying to rebuild a big crazy overhead system. At least, I think that will work, yeah? I'm thinking, just get like 12'-14' of flex-tube and hook it straight to whatever I need at the time. The table saw, the planer, the drum sander, the miter saw and the band saw all have the adapters still on them to hook it to. I'm not sure about the belt sander or the oscillating spindle sander, but those are really the only other items in there that I see myself using, aside from the router table. But the router table is just a big giant Porter-Cable mounted to the bottom of a table, I'm not sure how you'd attach a vac to it anyways.

The Shopping List.....
So now I'm in the market for a replacement table belt for the drum sander, bags and a flex-hose for the vac and a 1/2" blade for the band saw. Then I should have a pretty awesome shop setup here. Yeah, I know, none of it is "mine", it belongs to my boss. So as long as I don't get fired, I'm good!

 

[TerribleTim68]

Oh yeah, for those of you interested. That fretboard chip-out repair seems to be blending nicely.