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Thanks everyone so much for all the replies! i didn't really expect this thread to catch at all really.
For more specifics, his only comments on the part i laid down was "it sounds cheesy when the bass follows the guitar" which i'll respect but i think is a load of bull. Is Welcome to the Jungle cheesy? or the Ocean by zep. or 90 percent of Rock/Metal songs. but i'll experiment with some other ideas since it is his song and his vision.
The only other thing he mentioned is that he wants the bass doing the 'main riff'(with the hammer ons) during the part after that which we're tentatively calling a verse. But that would get rid of one of the only 2 spots in the song where there's a rest. and since its such a busy song I feel like a quarter note rest by everyone could be needed, which I think will change the feel just enough to allow vocals to come in and be memorable, when they come.
I'm definitely not in the 'don't tell me what to play camp' and I'm going to work with my guitarists to get his input for what he was thinking of. I want to make sure to be able to listen to other peoples advice and use it to my advantage. But i also want my input to be considered a bit to. I'd really prefer if drums would be added first so i have a better idea of what would work, but my drummer wants the bass and guitar parts solidified before he tackles it(which seems backwards to me, i might push him a little bit on that idea. we're giving it another go tonight and i'll let you guys know how it goes.
again thanks everyone for the feedback. even if it completely changes direction its nice that some fellow bass players appreciate what i was trying to do
For more specifics, his only comments on the part i laid down was "it sounds cheesy when the bass follows the guitar" which i'll respect but i think is a load of bull. Is Welcome to the Jungle cheesy? or the Ocean by zep. or 90 percent of Rock/Metal songs. but i'll experiment with some other ideas since it is his song and his vision.
The only other thing he mentioned is that he wants the bass doing the 'main riff'(with the hammer ons) during the part after that which we're tentatively calling a verse. But that would get rid of one of the only 2 spots in the song where there's a rest. and since its such a busy song I feel like a quarter note rest by everyone could be needed, which I think will change the feel just enough to allow vocals to come in and be memorable, when they come.
I'm definitely not in the 'don't tell me what to play camp' and I'm going to work with my guitarists to get his input for what he was thinking of. I want to make sure to be able to listen to other peoples advice and use it to my advantage. But i also want my input to be considered a bit to. I'd really prefer if drums would be added first so i have a better idea of what would work, but my drummer wants the bass and guitar parts solidified before he tackles it(which seems backwards to me, i might push him a little bit on that idea. we're giving it another go tonight and i'll let you guys know how it goes.
again thanks everyone for the feedback. even if it completely changes direction its nice that some fellow bass players appreciate what i was trying to do
Once you get down the collaboration process and how to keep open, constructive communication you will appreciate it very much. I don't always come up with the "epic" bass lines that I'm trying for so some outside input is very helpful to me and the whole band to get a product that we are all happy with and proud to release for other's enjoyment.
If they are paying me for my time, I'll play whatever they want. If they aren't, I'll play whatever I want. In the case of the latter, I'm always open to suggestions and constructive criticism, but the final say is mine. If that's a deal breaker for them, so be it. We probably wouldn't last too long anyway if they don't like my playing style.
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yea that last session was excruciating. Everything i play for that dude sounds "too cheesy". he wants straight 16th notes with crazy guitar solo-esque fills. and thats just not how I play or what I want to play. next time I see the guy I'm gunna say either I have a bit of say on my part, or he writes the bass line, or he finds another bassist whose stuff is more 'acceptable'. Im definitely not putting myself through the same agony endured last night. like i'm all open to ideas and trying different stuff out but it's gotten to the point that its insulting my playing and style honestly.
I hope all guitar players aren't like this. I'm starting to think its the majority of them though.
I hope all guitar players aren't like this. I'm starting to think its the majority of them though.
The song doesn't automatically belong to the band, it belongs to the writer. Did he ask or expect you to create the bass part? If so, you graduate to co-writer and your opinion matters. If he didn't, writing the bass part is his responsibility and he owns that.
Once the part is written, interpreting it in performance is the responsibility of the producer first and the artist (you) second. If the writer is also the bandleader, he's the producer, and again it's up to him to express whether and when he wants your input. If you're the leader/producer, the writer's interpretation is secondary to yours.
There's no "should." It really comes down to your recognized role in the organization. Are you a creative partner, or a sideman? (Hint: A sideman earns a lot more.)
A caveat for anyone who's relatively new to band life: Don't presume that playing the bass is the same as being in charge of the bass part. In a non-pro situation you have to earn that with work, practice, listening and building trust with your bandmates.
i totally get what you're saying and agree very much so. if this was a bass line he had and wanted me to perform, id play it without question(maybe add some of my own stuff, but would get rid of it immediately if it was a no go). He's asking me to come up with a bass line, but everything, and literally everything, i bring to the table is shot down. again "too cheesy" is his only comment, which is turning into an insult kind of quickly. especially given the time i've spent working on this.
on the band leader comment, i couldn't really say there is a band leader. we're a group of guys that are all pretty soft spoken, heck maybe i should seize that role since no one else really has yet haha.
but yea essentially the sum of it all has been "come up with a bass track for this, no not that, no not that, try this...no not that either".
Yup!! Hopefully you guys have a songwriting agreement (preferably in writing). If you are collaborating, then you have a say in the bass line. If it's his song completely, try to give him what he wants. If you can't, he should work with you to get it there.... or find another bass player. Not necessarily to replace you, but to work out that part.
Most importantly, be sure the band knows where they stand with songwriting and credits.
Songwriting is an act of vulnerability. It's natural that songwriters, particularly ones that haven't written a lot, will be guarded about their baby. In all likelihood, the guitarist just had something in his head that didn't sound like what was laid down, which is far more typical than not. But it can be a turnoff for a less experienced writer. Plus, it takes time to learn how to deal with truly sharing a song idea, being open to criticism and collaboration, etc...
Don't let this be the only try. I have found that some band songwriting situations are best when it's all in the family, so to speak. Try some riffs and lyric ideas together, and see where it goes from there. Each band has its own hang and feel, and will undoubtedly stamp itself in the process, for good or bad.
I have my songs that I write and record for myself. And I have songs that were collaborative events in the bands. Most of the songs I write for myself never show up in band situations. Those ones are my babies, and are not to be raised by the village, as it were.
Don't let this be the only try. I have found that some band songwriting situations are best when it's all in the family, so to speak. Try some riffs and lyric ideas together, and see where it goes from there. Each band has its own hang and feel, and will undoubtedly stamp itself in the process, for good or bad.
I have my songs that I write and record for myself. And I have songs that were collaborative events in the bands. Most of the songs I write for myself never show up in band situations. Those ones are my babies, and are not to be raised by the village, as it were.
Well... OP could put it in more friendly and/or professional terms, and get the point across.
Any guitarist can write at least a simple bass line to a song he/she writes. Tell him to "show" you what he wants, and record his own track. If he gives the "well, I'm not a bassist" or "I can't play exactly what I'm hearing in my head" crap, then you can gently remind him who is the bassist, and that maybe his expectations are unrealistic.
Sounds like you have the song structure down with the guitarist. Once you collaborate with the drummer, you can provide the necessary foundation and articulate and create the bass parts while allowing the guitarist to provide the melody
