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Double Bass Fishman Bass Blender non functioning

LHbassist

LHbassist

Supporting Member
Apr 4, 2003
1,419
2,307
Reno, Nevada
#1
I bought this several years ago.. got it in really excellent condition with a BP-100 pickup which I sold, and a carrying bag. It looks like the perfect tool for using a mic, and a piezo! The problem, is I've never been able to get a peep out of it. I made the proper cable for it (I'm a luthier, and can make cables and test them) and still, nothing. Is there anyone that might be able to help? I have a few other things I use, an ART two channel mic pre with phantom power is my go-to.. but it would be nice to get this blender working again. Fishman was of no help. Anyone have this issue and fixed it?
 
#2
Just checking, are you using the power supply Fishman included with the unit or batteries ? Also, the Crown GLM condenser included, was designed specifically to run at half of the Bass Blender’s voltage. A new Headway EDB-2 blender costs around half what the Blender did new and is 1/3 the size. They will be selling them off, once the New Headway EDB design is released. Just my take.
 
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#4
What you could do is order an new Fishman power supply. They still sell them, that way for a minimal investment you can rule out if that's the issue. I also remember that the battery holder connections

tended to pop out and disconnect the battery.
 
#6
Well, I tried a known good power supply, and got it working. Still no mic function. I just received the proper Fishman power supply, and same results. The piezo input works fine. The AUX/ MIC 1/4" input is an issue. In the manual, it says it will take a MONO 1/4" jack from a mic or pickup.
I have an Audio Technica ATM 350. It uses phantom power. It works in my mixers, and through my ART two channel preamp. So, the mic is good, as is the transformer and adapter.
I ordered a female XLR to 1/4" mono cable. Plugged the mic in, still no function. Pushing the 'phantom' button, makes a slight pop when engaged/ disengaged, but the mic doesn't work. I just ordered the same cable in 1/4" TRS (stereo) to female XLR. I wonder if this will finally do it. Maybe the pin orientation in the 1/4" end should be changed, I don't know. For the life of me- why Fishman made this a 1/4" rather than an XLR input is a mystery. Offering a choice with an XLR or 1/4" input on the mic side, would have been ideal.
 
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#8
Stevorebob said:
I might not be looking at the right unit, but isn’t there an XLR mic input on the back side? That’s where the phantom power would be provided, not through a 1/4” phone jack.
Click to expand...

The Mic XLR on the rear panel, is an output. There are three XLR outputs on the rear panel. No mic input. That, would have resolved my issue. The manual clearly shows, in one photo, an acoustic guitar with a separate Crown type condenser mic terminating in a 1/4" mono plug. The plug is shown to connect to the 1/4" Aux/ Mic input on the front panel.
I wonder if the Crown mic that was the mic of choice for this era, was wired differently than my ATM 350, and today's mics. The 350 uses a three pin balanced XLR mic connector. The mic has the proper ATM transformer, a mini plug to a standard adapter for standard XLR console inputs. I have used it many times, and it sounds great. I am in need of someone who knows about this mic cable pin orientation, and the orientation of the input on the Fishman Blender. I sure would like to get it working.. looks like a good unit.. Maybe not as god as a Hedway.. but its what I have. And for my very limited gigs these days- buying gear is unwise.
 
#9
LHbassist said:
Well, I tried a known good power supply, and got it working. Still no mic function. I just received the proper Fishman power supply, and same results. The piezo input works fine. The AUX/ MIC 1/4" input is an issue. In the manual, it says it will take a MONO 1/4" jack from a mic or pickup.
I have an Audio Technica ATM 350. It uses phantom power. It works in my mixers, and through my ART two channel preamp. So, the mic is good, as is the transformer and adapter.
I ordered a female XLR to 1/4" mono cable. Plugged the mic in, still no function. Pushing the 'phantom' button, makes a slight pop when engaged/ disengaged, but the mic doesn't work. I just ordered the same cable in 1/4" TRS (stereo) to female XLR. I wonder if this will finally do it. Maybe the pin orientation in the 1/4" end should be changed, I don't know. For the life of me- why Fishman made this a 1/4" rather than an XLR input is a mystery. Offering a choice with an XLR or 1/4" input on the mic side, would have been ideal.
Click to expand...

I had many friends in the 90’s who got great results out of the Fishman Bass Blender unit, but I could never deal with all of the “fiddling” that was required to get that sound. Back then I just plugged an Underwood into an SVT with a Shure 57 mic on a small stand near the treble side F hole, straight into the PA or soundboard and I was able to get great sounds back then. I get it though, because it is nice to have that blended sound coming straight out of the amplifier instead of having the mic nuances out front. Now I just use the two channels on my AI Clarus to blend a mic and my piezo pickup.
 
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#11
Here’s what I think is your issue. The Crown GLM condenser mic that was supplied with the Fishman Bass Blender’s Phantom ran at 4.5 volts not 9 Volts, so if The Audio Technica 350 needs more than 4.5 it’s not going to work. Since it’s been quite some time since I owned mine I can’t be sure but, I did purchase a ATM35 to use with the Bass Blender and I don’t think it worked. As to the 1/4” plug. Mine was wired to a Stereo 1/4” jack in combination with the pickup. My recollection is that the phantom power is supplied by the ring connector on a 1/4” Stereo phone plug.,
 
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#12
dhergert- THANKS for the tip! I have an ancient Beyer Dynamic recording mic.. XLR plug at the end. I plugged it into the adapter, then into an amp- it worked great, and also into the Fishman Blender- and it also worked just fine.

I HAVE FOUND THE ISSUE!

Well, the ATM 350, upon reading the manual, requires from 11- 52 V phantom power.
The Fishman Blender manual states that it provides 4.5 volts.

So, the blender, unless I can figure out a way to step up the phantom power voltage by minimum 2X, it's unusable to me.

Thanks to all of you, your suggestions really helped!
 
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#13
Very welcomed, glad The test worked... As mentioned, other responsers were alluding to the same conclusion.

The reason I guessed at this is I have an old, small, battery or AC operated Behringer mixer that provides 1/2 phantom power under battery and as such, under battery it severely limits what condenser mics can be used. This mixer works fine for any condenser under AC, and of course it's great for any dynamic mic using either battery or AC.

Sounds like the Bass Blender has similar limitations.

Good luck as you search for the right combination!
 
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#14
Now- is there anyone that can instruct me how to step up the phantom power voltage? Or is this a serious complete rebuild/ component replacement procedure involving WAY more time and expertise than this old luthier and repair tech has for this project?
 
#15
Ric Vice said:
Here’s what I think is your issue. The Crown GLM condenser mic that was supplied with the Fishman Bass Blender’s Phantom ran at 4.5 volts not 9 Volts, so if The Audio Technica 350 needs more than 4.5 it’s not going to work. Since it’s been quite some time since I owned mine I can’t be sure but, I did purchase a ATM35 to use with the Bass Blender and I don’t think it worked. As to the 1/4” plug. Mine was wired to a Stereo 1/4” jack in combination with the pickup. My recollection is that the phantom power is supplied by the ring connector on a 1/4” Stereo phone plug.,
Click to expand...

Thanks, Ric!
Obviously, you were correct. I just needed to discover it myself. A big DUH on this end, all I really needed to do was read both manuals.
 
#16
I do have an ART two channel pre that works for this application of mine- but there's no EQ, and less control overall than the blender.
Th ATM 350 sounds really good- but the old gremlin of difficulty in live situations using a mic- is always present, regardless of volume. Stand next to even a moderately strong drummer, and it's almost out of the mix.
 
#18
Apparently, the 'phantom power' that these old Fishman bass blenders supply is indeed bias power. My Blender manual says 4.5 volts. The ATM, at minimum 11 volts cannot be powered with the Fishman power supply. If I remember correctly, these actually shipped with a Crown condenser mic. Little black plastic boxy lookin' thing. I had one a very long time ago, but I don't remember what I did with it. I wouldn't likely use it on my bass anyway.
Thanks, Steve, for the information. I learn something new, every day.
 
#19
You should distinguish between electret-condensers and non-electret-condensers.

Non-electrets are the typical studio mics. They need phantom power for two things, the polarization of the membrane and the built-in preamp. The high voltage is used for the membrane (mainly). A lower voltage results in a lower output and that leads to a higher noise floor relative to the signal. Often useable, but a bit more noisy. It depends on the construction of the preamp how low the phantom power can be to get a undistorted signal.

Electrets are often a lot cheaper, can be very small because in most cases there is just a small FET mounted directly at the capsule, no need for a high phantom power because the FET can work with voltages between 1.5 and 15 Volts. If there is a separate preamp or battery/power adapter, the resistor and capacitor (to separate bias power from the signal) is built-in there. With battery-only adapters it‘s usually not more than this. The bias voltage can be delivered via the signal line to the mic capsule (often the case) or by a third connection to separate power from signal.
So a two line connection always is bias power on the signal line. With a three line connection to a very small capsule it is in almost all cases bias power on a separate line.
The signal is always unbalanced in these cases.

Phantom power always needs a balanced output from the mic. I haven‘t seen a TRS with phantom power myself, but they may exist in rare cases (i.e. where there is not enough room for an XLR-connector). The TRS balanced inputs I have seen were always line level. (The ones that were mic level were not balanced but bias power unbalanced.)
Mini-XLR are often (always?) unbalanced with bias power going into a preamp/battery adapter/radio transmitter with preamp.

You might be able to get a better electret capsule with built-in FET (that’s for most of them) and wire it correctly to your Bass Blender. But don’t think you can do that with a phantom powered non-electret.
 
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#20
The Crown GLM 20 microphone that was designed specifically for the Fishman Bass Blender, was one of those tiny miniature lavalier microphones. It ran on 4.5 volts because the Blender could be powered by a single 9 volt battery

with half of that power sent to the phantom while the other half ran the preamp. It was very expensive little box at the time $499.00 plus the Crown GLM 20 and stereo jack. The Headway EDB-2 and the EDB-2 H.E. uses two 9 volt's

and a other circuitry to give you the full 48 volts to the phantom and two full channels of EQ. It costs about half what the Blender did at the time it was available. Since I've owned both, I'd never even consider trying to get the Fishman

to do what one of todays boxes can. Just my take of course. There is a Countryman Lavalier that will supposedly work in conjunction with the blender.
 
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