fitting the mix issues

[JoshuaTSP]

That's probably why the "ampeg tone" works so well.....

When I used the SVT-IIP alone, I kept wanting to add low mid grunt....
The lows were there and the upper mid range was snappy......just didn't have that in-your-face fat solid low mid tone I'm accustom to.

I kept trying to add the frequencies that would compete with the guitar low end and it's definition.

 

[anonymous02282011]

Sunbeast makes some good points.

I'd go back to using one cab or the other, if for no other reason than to experiment with cutting through. Mixing those cabs may result in some weird phase issues.

The other, probably obvious suggestion is cutting out the low end. You can try this just for experimental purposes, but from what you describe I'm not sure this is the solution for you.

 

[JoshuaTSP]

Another thing to mention is that I used my Ric at rehearsal once, and the band guys really dug it.

Not only the look, but the tone.

I dug the tone too, but the low C string was a bit too floppy for my tastes.

I figured the tone was much deeper and somewhat automatically scooped with both pickups on. Not to mention some high end cancellation.

Which makes sense......the Ric basically EQ'd my tone for me....in a way that fit the mix a little better.

 

[NKBassman]

Another thing to mention is that I used my Ric at rehearsal once, and the band guys really dug it.

Not only the look, but the tone.

I dug the tone too, but the low C string was a bit too floppy for my tastes.

I figured the tone was much deeper and somewhat automatically scooped with both pickups on. Not to mention some high end cancellation.

Which makes sense......the Ric basically EQ'd my tone for me....in a way that fit the mix a little better.

If everybody liked it and it sounded better, why not throw some heavier strings on there and rock?

 

[JoshuaTSP]

If everybody liked it and it sounded better, why not throw some heavier strings on there and rock?

I did actually, a .130 set tuned to C standard.
It wasn't terrible for a shorter scale instrument, but just never gave me that "AWESOME" feeling.

I'll probably still use it every once in a while still, but my Wick Corvette $$ 5 has been my go to bass these days.
Before that it was a Peavey Foundation 5....which I still love, but cannot compete with the feel, tone and the tightness of the low C on the Wick.

 

[will33]

Sounds like you're on the right track. Keep making minor tweaks every time you guys get together to jam and you'll find some nice middle ground eventually.

When I first got my tube head I'd jam a bit before the other guys would get to practice and dial in what I thought was a great tone. When the rest of the band started playing things would sound like balls and I'd start tweaking knobs over the course of the night to compensate. More often than not I would end up with a slight mid-cut and everything else around noon, a far cry from where I started.

I guess what I'm trying to say is to not be afraid to adjust your tone from what you think sounds good to what actually sounds good when you're all playing in the same room together at the same time.

+1

OP, it does sound like you're on the right track and have an understanding of frequencies competing, mix slotting, etc. Just need to dial it in a little closer. Over the years, I've learned to set my sound where I don't think it sounds all that great, or at least doesn't match what's in my head....until everybody is playing, then it's good. It is a little wierd to wrap your head around sometimes. Best thing to do is listen to your band as far away from the gear as you can get to see how it all sits. That means long cords, wirelesses or having a friend sit in for a song during soundcheck so you can get away from the individual rigs and out far enough to hear them all blended together.

 

[sunbeast]

I suppose that's what happens with Al Cisneros in OM is your tone hero, but you play in a band with guitars. DOH!

Yeah- his tone in OM is basically like a bass and guitar in tandem- one great use of a large stack of amps, but not at all ideal with the addition of guitar! Oddly enough, the first time I saw them play, his rig sounded fantastic and very similar to the tone of the Pilgrimage album while the second time I saw them his tone was all mud. Part of the problem being that the sound guy kept telling him to turn his stage volume down- once Al convinced the sound guy to take the bass out of the PA altogether and just let his amps fill the room the sound was considerably better. Having a complicated rig set up worked against him for most of that second show though...

But listen to his tone in Shrinebuilder- all thick lows/low-mids through a single Ampeg SVT rig that the guitars sit perfectly on top of (by the way- I love that they covered Joy Division):
Shrinebuilder covers Joy Division - YouTube

My favorite stuff of his by far was Sleep, and I don't know how they managed to get that mix right (since his bass tone in that band was so huge), but their live tone was SOOOO good to my ears:
Sleep "Dragonaut" Live 9/5/10 - YouTube

 

[JoshuaTSP]

That's crazy! Thanks for all of the info!!

I love his tone, but I don't think mine is anything like his in reality....you're right, it's very bass&guitar sounding......I think I just love the dynamics, power and his mojo.....especially on the recordings. I think those are the parts I'm trying to achieve, but in more of a bass only way.....

The guitar tone/volume is as important in this equation as my bass tone/volume.

I have those similar feelings.....screw the PA, unless it's a huge venue.....my rig is designed to be robust and loud enough for most venues.

which is why, I think I may just be entirely too loud rather than EQ'ing it improperly.


I might have a little time this week to record a short clip of what I'm after with my current rig.....that's if I can record it within a fair proximity to what it sounds like in the room.

 

[Korladis]

Another thing to mention is that I used my Ric at rehearsal once, and the band guys really dug it.

Not only the look, but the tone.

I dug the tone too, but the low C string was a bit too floppy for my tastes.

I figured the tone was much deeper and somewhat automatically scooped with both pickups on. Not to mention some high end cancellation.

Which makes sense......the Ric basically EQ'd my tone for me....in a way that fit the mix a little better.

That's funny, because the scoop is one of the reasons I never use both pickups on a Ric at the same time.

 

[JoshuaTSP]

Yep, I prefer the bridge pickup solo'd....but use both to avoid hum and buzz.

 

[JoshuaTSP]

I also like the Young Widows bass tone.......but they get away with it because the guitar isn't as heavy and fuzzed out.

 

[JoshuaTSP]

Just compared the Wick and Ric, back to back.....

I really dig both tones.....the Wick in J mode seems to be a touch darker in the upper mids and a touch meatier in the low mids.....the Ric in both pickup mode, has a little more brightness/punch in the upper mids, slightly scooped and that sub-low end neck pickup boom.
both are really punchy......come to think of it, all of my basses are punchy.

That said, the low string on the Ric is alright, but noticeably not as tight as the Wick.

How much does that really matter live? not sure?
will the Ric turn into mud? does anyone in the audience really care?

 

[Korladis]

Yep, I prefer the bridge pickup solo'd....but use both to avoid hum and buzz.

I just tolerate the hum. I guess I just sort of got used to it.

The Warwick's probably just not as pronounced in the upper mids as the Rickenbacker is. To my ears Rics have a much more accentuated upper midrange than most basses, and lack the big low mid hump that a P-bass is most known for, but many other basses have.

For the lowest string... does yours have adjustable pole pieces or no? You could always move to a heavier gauge for that string, too, to get it a bit tighter.

 

[JoshuaTSP]

I just tolerate the hum. I guess I just sort of got used to it.

The Warwick's probably just not as pronounced in the upper mids as the Rickenbacker is. To my ears Rics have a much more accentuated upper midrange than most basses, and lack the big low mid hump that a P-bass is most known for, but many other basses have.

For the lowest string... does yours have adjustable pole pieces or no? You could always move to a heavier gauge for that string, too, to get it a bit tighter.

I heard the trick was to raise the bridge pickup to the proper height, and lower the neck pickup as far as possible....like a dummy coil. Haven't tried it.

I can get volume balance, but the tonal characteristics are different? if that makes any sense?
other 3 strings sound similar, but the low C is less defined maybe?
I cranked the bridge pole piece on the low C to get it loud enough.

 

[Korladis]

That's an interesting idea about lowering the neck pickup so you get hardly any signal but still get the humbucking effect. I normally prefer the neck pickup pretty low, anyway, so that I just shift to it if I need a quieter, more mellow sound.