Flats - Do I need to man-up?

[jallenbass]

Just reading the OP I'm thinking the strings just need to be broken in.

And maybe have the bass set up for flats as well.

 

[Ggaa]

La Bella low tension flats are comfortable and not boomy with the same eq setting I use with my ax with roundwounds. I have them on a fretless acoustic and one of my Wicks.

 

[GIBrat51]

Bit of background - I play in a Country Rock band, a 60s band, and a Blues Rock band. All fairly traditional stuff, with not an ounce of slapping in sight, fingerstyle (and palm mute) only..! I normally play a Fender Jazz with old D'Addario nickel rounds on it (45-105), either both pickups or front pickup only, but also occasionally take my P with the same type of rounds. The sound I am going for is deep, defined and muscular.

I decided, as everyone seems to love them these days, and specifically due to the vibe of the 60s band, to purchase a set of Flats - Fender 45-100 to be specific, after a little bit of research on here and elsewhere.

Played a gig with them tonight on the P (as I didn't want to muck about with the setup on my Jazz, which is my baby) - very disappointing..... The bad bits: the feel - they feel like cables, and sticky so hard to move around on. Also felt like harder work to fret; the sound - the boom is there, but almost too much at times. It seems like there is little of the "finesse" that I get with the rounds. It's hard to describe, and could be to do with readjusting my ears.

So, my question is, do I need to just admit defeat and go back to my rounds, or am I missing a trick? All reasonable suggestions considered!

Well, Okay...
1. Yeah, for various reasons, flats can feel sticky at first. Perseverance and time will almost always fix that... I have very dry hands, too; but I'm used to flats; can't say I have much of a problem with them any more...
2. Fender flats - like most flats - aren't particularly high tension strings. But, what flats are, is stiff. Which is caused by how they're made, not real high tension. And, as others have suggested, switching to a lighter gauge than the rounds you're used to will lower the actual tension (a little), and lower the stiffness as well...
3. I hate to say it, but... to get the maximum goodness out of those flats, you're going to have to do a set up on your P-Bass. Might turn out to be just a slight tweek - or it might not. But, you're going to have to do it, regardless...
4. Yeah, flats need some time to break in. Fenders don't need a lot of time (as flats go), but.. they do need some. So, play them for awhile, until they do break in, and - reserve judgement until then...And, finally,
5. You also need to tweek your amp settings a bit, to get all the goodness out of those flats. Maybe a little; maybe a lot; but, like the set up - gotta be done. This is what all those knobs are for...
I used to have the 9250M Fenders on my '78 P-Bass. I like them a lot; but, I pulled them a little while ago, because - for that bass - they were just too "polite" sounding. And, with 24 basses, I didn't want polite out of my Precision; I wanted low down, old school thump. So, the Fenders went on something else... But, if you need some versatility out of a set of flats? Fenders are a very good choice...

 

[BAG]

It has probably already been said (although skimming through I didn't see it) but flats generally have quite a bit higher tension than rounds so if you didn't touch your truss rod after installation you would most likely have increased your action height (possibly by quite a bit) and have some intonation issues. This may be part of the reason it felt like they were cables.

I once bought a Godin second hand. It was a few years old but looked like new as it was a mid-life-crisis purchased that barely got played. I'm guessing that someone had told him to put flats on it. The action was stupidly high and the intonation was so far out that fretting E on the 12th fret came out as an F. After tweaking the setup it played beautifully and I've had flats on most of my basses ever since. I still regret selling that one a bit.

 

[drumvsbass]

TI flats feel like little silky elves massaging the tips of my fingers as I play.

 

[5stringDNA]

Agreed on walking bass's recommendation for Thomastik Infeld flats. If you're put off by the heavy, high-tension "cable" feel of flats, the TI Jazz Bass flats are the most flexible feeling flats I've played. Very comfortable.

Initially expensive (as electric bass strings go), but they keep sounding like vintage flats over years of regular use.

Bingo. The bass in my Avatar has had those TI Flats on it for 15 years now. Love them- pricey, but the best flats ever. Chromes do feel like aircraft cables by comparison and don't sound as warm.

 

[Rib 13]

OP edit

for studiowork, i have basses strung with rounds, flats, and tapes

but for live, i only use fresh as-new-as-possible roundwounds. my logic is simple: i like the extra zing and piano-wire tone, and i can always dial out 'zing' if i choose to (active basses) to warm or classic it on select tunes.....but i can't dial in that extra zing/harmonic structure with flats if its not there to begin with so, for me, flats are a handicap live

i also never bought into the whole 2010s 'flatwounds/passive basses' bandwagon thing anyway

 

[deepestend]

I personally like light gauge 40-100 flats. I think that lighter is the way to go in general with flats or they become too much to play. That said, maybe flats really aren't for you. I took to them immediately.

Also, maybe give them a month or two. It takes a while to really break them in and get used to them.

 

[aldaa]

Bit of background - I play in a Country Rock band, a 60s band, and a Blues Rock band. All fairly traditional stuff, with not an ounce of slapping in sight, fingerstyle (and palm mute) only..! I normally play a Fender Jazz with old D'Addario nickel rounds on it (45-105), either both pickups or front pickup only, but also occasionally take my P with the same type of rounds. The sound I am going for is deep, defined and muscular.

I decided, as everyone seems to love them these days, and specifically due to the vibe of the 60s band, to purchase a set of Flats - Fender 45-100 to be specific, after a little bit of research on here and elsewhere.

Played a gig with them tonight on the P (as I didn't want to muck about with the setup on my Jazz, which is my baby) - very disappointing..... The bad bits: the feel - they feel like cables, and sticky so hard to move around on. Also felt like harder work to fret; the sound - the boom is there, but almost too much at times. It seems like there is little of the "finesse" that I get with the rounds. It's hard to describe, and could be to do with readjusting my ears.

So, my question is, do I need to just admit defeat and go back to my rounds, or am I missing a trick? All reasonable suggestions considered!

Sounds like you need La Bella flats. I didn't read through all the responses, so I'm sure someone else has suggested them, but La Bellas are nowhere near anything considered "sticky". Maybe try the low tension ones. I like the Fender flats, but they're fairly high tension. The thing is, you can "somewhat" mimic flats with rounds by rolling back on the tone... you can't mimic rounds with flats though.

LA BELLA FLATS!!! Smooth as silk!

 

[aldaa]

Getting used to flats is sort of a commitment. I like to have at least one bass with flats so the option is there. As long as you like the tone, just push through it. It's worth it in the end!

 

[logdrum]

Flats are not for everyone. TI flats are great, even better if you raise your action. Having said that I used the thicker Ernie Ball Cobalt flats - the thinner gauge. Because they have some roundwound tone going. Even though I play upright I prefer rounds actually and use a foam when needed

 

[juancaminos]

I have done what you just did so many times and could never get it. I've even gone thru a few sets of very expensive tape wounds. Then just realized that round wounds are it for me...

 

[jcburn]

Try a lighter gauge Earnie Ball Cobalt Flats. I’m a dyed in the wool SSRW player, but the cobalt flats have enough zing to not be just boom and muddy thud. They have a midrange texture.

By going with 100s or 95 gauge, it will offset the higher tension feel. I like either 95 or 100 as my e string, and generally play a 105 for my rounds.

The flats will feel sticky, as you have more surface contact that with rounds, so more friction. Either try using finger ease to lube the strings until you get used to playing them, and wipe them down after you play as well. You will eventually get used to playing them. I go back and forth, but they will make my fingers hurt a little if I play them for long periods compared to the rounds.

^ This.

I am a dyed-in-the-eye nickel rounds guy, but when I need a little flats "thud" EB Cobalt flats do it for me. Bit more zing and a bit more complexity in the mids that do it for me.
Plus they don't feel super stiff like usually flats.

YMMV.

 

[tradernick]

I normally play a Fender Jazz with old D'Addario nickel rounds on it (45-105)

Played a gig with them tonight on the P (as I didn't want to muck about with the setup on my Jazz, which is my baby) - very disappointing..... The bad bits: the feel - they feel like cables, and sticky so hard to move around on.

So, my question is, do I need to just admit defeat and go back to my rounds, or am I missing a trick? All reasonable suggestions considered!

First off, there’s a lot of moving parts in the change you’ve made. Everything about your technique is informed by a totally different string type. It may take some time to adjust.

After decades on stainless steel round wounds, I’ve switched to half rounds and couldn’t be happier. The stickiness thing should eventually turn into the opposite. I find it much easier to glide around on the left hand with the half rounds.

Good luck.

 

[brett adams]

when i made the switch to flats, i had some of the same issues. my remedy for stiffness was to lower the action and lessen the relief in the neck to just under spec. made a huge difference in playability.

Bit of background - I play in a Country Rock band, a 60s band, and a Blues Rock band. All fairly traditional stuff, with not an ounce of slapping in sight, fingerstyle (and palm mute) only..! I normally play a Fender Jazz with old D'Addario nickel rounds on it (45-105), either both pickups or front pickup only, but also occasionally take my P with the same type of rounds. The sound I am going for is deep, defined and muscular.

I decided, as everyone seems to love them these days, and specifically due to the vibe of the 60s band, to purchase a set of Flats - Fender 45-100 to be specific, after a little bit of research on here and elsewhere.

Played a gig with them tonight on the P (as I didn't want to muck about with the setup on my Jazz, which is my baby) - very disappointing..... The bad bits: the feel - they feel like cables, and sticky so hard to move around on. Also felt like harder work to fret; the sound - the boom is there, but almost too much at times. It seems like there is little of the "finesse" that I get with the rounds. It's hard to describe, and could be to do with readjusting my ears.

So, my question is, do I need to just admit defeat and go back to my rounds, or am I missing a trick? All reasonable suggestions considered!

 

[okabass]

I use now flats all my 7ender basses. La Bella Jamerson or Thomastiks. Before that I used a few decades the norm rounds.
To me the helping "bridge" to get used the flats were the Thomastik JF344 set. They are quite flexible and easy to play. Most of the music (60's 70's rock, blues) I nowadays play, was played using flats and the best way to get that sound is using flats.
In my opinion the flats don't sound so good soloed, but in a band context very good. I feel that they make quite a lot the whole bands "old" style sound .

 

[JimmyM]

I use now flats all my 7ender basses. La Bella Jamerson or Thomastiks.

Talk about going from extremes...from telephone cables to wet noodles!

Hey man, been a while...hope all is well! Still got that SVT rig you built yourself?

 

[Kukulkan61]

Rounds suck

 

[Nashrakh]

Flats suck.

In the same way that Primus sucks!

 

[Andy Daventry]

Bit of background - I play in a Country Rock band, a 60s band, and a Blues Rock band. All fairly traditional stuff, with not an ounce of slapping in sight, fingerstyle (and palm mute) only..! I normally play a Fender Jazz with old D'Addario nickel rounds on it (45-105), either both pickups or front pickup only, but also occasionally take my P with the same type of rounds. The sound I am going for is deep, defined and muscular.

I decided, as everyone seems to love them these days, and specifically due to the vibe of the 60s band, to purchase a set of Flats - Fender 45-100 to be specific, after a little bit of research on here and elsewhere.

Played a gig with them tonight on the P (as I didn't want to muck about with the setup on my Jazz, which is my baby) - very disappointing..... The bad bits: the feel - they feel like cables, and sticky so hard to move around on. Also felt like harder work to fret; the sound - the boom is there, but almost too much at times. It seems like there is little of the "finesse" that I get with the rounds. It's hard to describe, and could be to do with readjusting my ears.

So, my question is, do I need to just admit defeat and go back to my rounds, or am I missing a trick? All reasonable suggestions considered!

If the rounds work, use the rounds. I use TI flats on my P bass, but they don't work for me on jazz basses. D'A nickel rounds on a jazz are a pretty good mix'