Flats question about stiffness and E string clarity

[micguy]

Depends on what the bass is. On a P, basically anything works. On my hofner, well, I’m not covinced the E string is EVER going to be super clear and defined. Jazz Basses, especially old ones, also tend to have an uneven string response.

A skinny neck (as on a Jazz) or a hollow body (as on the Hofner) will steal energy away from the string faster than a solid bodied bass with a thick neck. They steal that energy differently at different frequencies (dead spots being the obvious example), and clarity often suffers as a result. That "fast" (aka skinny) neck probably doesn't sound quite as good as a "slow" one. I have big hands, so for me a fat neck is actually a fast neck - I play big 5 string necks, which are great at clarity down low. When I get a 4 string bass in my shop to work on with a skinny neck, I'm often amazed at the lessened sustain and clarity.

 

[skier 913]

A skinny neck (as on a Jazz) or a hollow body (as on the Hofner) will steal energy away from the string faster than a solid bodied bass with a thick neck. They steal that energy differently at different frequencies (dead spots being the obvious example), and clarity often suffers as a result. That "fast" (aka skinny) neck probably doesn't sound quite as good as a "slow" one. I have big hands, so for me a fat neck is actually a fast neck - I play big 5 string necks, which are great at clarity down low. When I get a 4 string bass in my shop to work on with a skinny neck, I'm often amazed at the lessened sustain and clarity.

Thats the real science behind the 'tone wood' debate...basicaly the degree of wood density vs vibration. It's either stealing or compressing the vibrations

 

[dougjwray]

From a Scientific perspective (I studied precisely this stuff in college), stiffness contributes to the string being a dispersive medium - dispersive means the speed of wave propagation is not constant with frequency, which means (in musician's terms) that the overtones are not in tune with the fundamental. More stiffness means LESS clarity as a result - there is a correlation, but it's negative. If you're noticing more clarity on a stiffer string, it's not because it's stiffer - something else is at play.

That's exactly the kind of info I was seeking. Thank you!

 

[michael_t]

I have recently used Dunlop Flats 45-95 and found the E clear plus an excellent balance across the set.

Are you sure you're talking about Dunlop, and not GHS? Dunlop doesn't offer 45-95 factory set; GHS does.

 

[dougjwray]

OP here.
Thanks to everyone for your input.
I was looking for a scientific discussion, and I did get it.
To clarify: I like both "traditional" *and * "modern" flats, for different basses and different musical environments, so I'm not "looking for brighter flats."
To move on to my practical needs: I guess what I'm seeking -- to add to my pallette -- are "dark chocolate", thumpy strings which yet have clear E string notes, and which retain that quality for years. No floppy strings-- I like them to fight back. Thanks to your help, I'll try GHS Precision Flats in a lighter gauge.

 

[michael_t]

I guess what I'm seeking -- to add to my pallette -- are "dark chocolate", thumpy strings which yet have clear E string notes, and which retain that quality for years. No floppy strings-- I like them to fight back. Thanks to your help, I'll try GHS Precision Flats in a lighter gauge.

GHS Precision Flats certainly do have the "sound of dark chocolate". I do like the light set (45-95) for being "comfy but not floppy". How much "fighting back" you want from them would be up to your personal taste.

 

[skier 913]

To move on to my practical needs: I guess what I'm seeking -- to add to my pallette -- are "dark chocolate", thumpy strings which yet have clear E string notes, and which retain that quality for years.

Just use your usual favorite clear sounding, quality flats, and eat some 'dark chocolate' with your hands before your next jam session!

 

[Yahboy]

I have used only three brands of flats in 30 years:
D'Addario Chromes
GHS Precision Flats
Labella DTF
All in roughly 45-105 gauges.
For me, Chromes are the only ones which maintain clarity on the E string notes-- even after 10+ years of use. They have a stiffer feel than the others.
Is there any correlation between stiffness and E string clarity? (Scientifically speaking...)

Chrome E has clarity even after 10+years !?!?!

I believe your clarity may different to my clarity ......

Been try lot of flatwound bass string, only EB Cobalt flat > Ti flat > EB Group flat keep E string clarity last .

 

[dougjwray]

I have a Jazz Bass which has had 3 sets of Chromes since I bought it in 2003. I change them only when the notes on the E string become indistinguishable. The longest stretch was 2009-2020!

 

[PaperbackRyder]

Are you sure you're talking about Dunlop, and not GHS? Dunlop doesn't offer 45-95 factory set; GHS does.

My mistake, the Dunlops are 45-100.

 

[Paul New]

OP here.
Thanks to everyone for your input.
I was looking for a scientific discussion, and I did get it.
To clarify: I like both "traditional" *and * "modern" flats, for different basses and different musical environments, so I'm not "looking for brighter flats."
To move on to my practical needs: I guess what I'm seeking -- to add to my pallette -- are "dark chocolate", thumpy strings which yet have clear E string notes, and which retain that quality for years. No floppy strings-- I like them to fight back. Thanks to your help, I'll try GHS Precision Flats in a lighter gauge.

I understand the logic for lighter gauge strings, but the people best known for the sound you describe all played LaBella 1954s, with some muting. I don’t notice a lack of clarity in the playing of Jamerson, Glaub, Dunn, Cogbill… Some of that might have been down to fingers.

 

[ljazz]

I loved a broken in old set of Sadowsky Black Label Flats that saw one too many reinstalls and gave up the ghost recently. They got thumpy as they broke in, but retained enough high mid info to help maintain clarity and pitch definition. Searching for a replacement now to fill my thump lane in the lineup.... I have a set of the Olintos on now which sound and feel promising.