Flatwound strings in modern music

[Levin]

On my basses, when I've strung them (regardless of bass, or genre) with Fender (mostly) or TI flats, the only thing that people noticed where ''oh, your bass sound good today!'' when recording/playing through PA systems and the like. So... yeah I honestly think no one hears a difference except the bass player, and even if they do they don't know that it is the strings.

Those are both bright though, (at least Fenders) so I don't know. I think they are versatile if you use them for lots of different stuff and it works great.

 

[Sweet Willie]

Meshell Ndegeocello, I think. Not always.

 

[Pier_]

What do you guys think about that ?

it all depends on your personal refereces in terms of sound.

for example, if you like an 80's frizzleing bright kind of sound, like Mark King or similar things, a "Club Tropicana" sound, stay away from flats! they won't work well.

if you don't have extreme preferences, you can play whatever you like. sure is that flats won't give you the harsh highs of new roundwounds, but with modern style flats (Chromes? TI?) is easier to get away with a bit of EQ.

in my personal view, flats are actually more versatile by themself, fitting in every context without any issue, and always with the right amount of bass and mid frequencies to cut through and sound like a bass.

obviously, if you need to play for a metal band who wants a super-scooped sound with extreme highs, flats won't fit... but usually in those bands the bass player uses lots of pedals, like preamps with distortion and EQ, through distorted amplifiers, and even flats can sound crispy and "metal".

I played with a modern-grunge band using a Yamaha BB415 strung with Thomastik JF345, through a Fulltone Fulldrive 2 MOSFET and a Marsall JCM2000 (on a small Ampeg 210av wonderful cab, better than the 4x10 Marshall), and the sound was KILLER!

the fact is that we usually associate flats with music played in the 60's and 70's, and with high action, foam under the bridge, tone rolled off... I set my flats with the lowest action possible, because there are no "ziiings" (because their vibration is tighter) and they sound wounderfully slammed on the frets, like a bass digged in, and not like a guitar.

once I went to the reharsal with rounds, and everyone of the band told me that my sound was sh*t, and that I sounded like a guitar... and I used to play modern music, not vintage style things...

 

[Jakub]

Actually I never played metal and I don't think so that I will be a metal player in the future But I start to serious practice on slap things (but in band situation I use slap once in a blue moon I just want to know new techniques on bass and, you know, be the most versatile as possible as bass player maby one day I'll play in funky band when I add some funky slap taste to overall sound ? Time will tell ) And my favourite bass players are guys like Nathan East, Leland Sklar, Pino Palladino, John Deacon, Adam Clayton... I like Marcus Miller slap style, Prince is one of the biggest music inspiration for me and legacy of James Jamerson, Jaco Pastorious or Carol Kaye is what I love in bass playing and that kind of guys are the most influential for my approach to bass playing.

 

[Pier_]

I just want to know new techniques on bass and, you know,

for sure! I started studying slap seriously less than a month ago, just to know how the hell some players can emulate a drum groove with two hands on a bass
one thing I can suggest you is to buy a cheap bass to be kept with rounds and used to study things like slap or tapping.

about flats, consider that this sound: Dropbox - tapping #1.mp3

is made with a Precision strung with Thomastik (three years and an half old), and it's a rudimentary tapping made by me, trying to understand this technique months ago (like slap, I've never needed to use tapping, so I started studying a bit to understand the basics of the technique and the use).

I find this sound wounderful, and better than the roundwound tapping.

slap is even good, just not the "marcus miller-mark king" style of slap! it's more like a 70's vibe, from the dirty funk of that era.

here's my ex Yamaha BB415 with Thomastik JF345, bridge pickup, ugly playing (I recorded it on the run, so I didn't care of what I actually played! just pressed REC and done a minute of nonsense! ), and the first part is played in slap. with the neck pickup the slap was even better.

is what I love in bass playing and that kind of guys are the most influential for my approach to bass playing.

so, flats are the answer! enjoy the pure joy of not having to equalize anything to get a big and full and still clear bass sound even from the bare PA!

 

[Jakub]

Thanks And do you try some tapewound nylon strings ? Could be a happy medium between rounds and flats ?

 

[JamesFoxBass]

Thanks And do you try some tapewound nylon strings ? Could be a happy medium between rounds and flats ?

My experience of tape wounds are that they go even further beyond flats, but once again if you EQ it right then you'll be mostly fine!

I currently have TI's on my 2011 MIM P Bass which I fitted with CTS 250k Pots and a .1uf cap. I play in a function band and we are mostly Jazz/Soul/Blues influenced and I have my mandatory foam next to the bridge to lessen the overtones even further, but we occasionally add one or two more upbeat rockier numbers in and the TI's still sound amazing even with my tone control all the way up! I cannot recommend TI's enough! They feel fantastic, they last a LONG time, and to me they sound the best! I've had my TI's on my P for only 5 months but every single week my band still comment how killer I sound with them!

 

[Pier_]

And do you try some tapewound nylon strings ?

yes, Rotosound, and they are nothing similar to flats nor rounds. they are light roundwound strings covered with a flat nylon tape (wich takes the overall gauge up, but not the tension), so the surface is smooth, the sustain is a bit shorter and the sound is "metallic", scooped on the mids and with an extreme amount of deep-low frequencies, sometimes hard to control.

flats are mid-centered, with tight but nice bass frequencies, so they cut through any mix and sound like a bass.

here's the later example I have of Thomastik Flats on a Precision (4 years old set)



as you can hear, the sound is mid-oriented, but smooth.

here's the same strings (another set, only a year old) on a Squier Classic Vibe Jazz Bass:

finger:



pick:

 

[Jakub]

Wow ! On jazz bass it sounds like a roundwonds ! So on my Stingray should sound similar, I guess. Definitely I buy Thomastik flats !

 

[ticol07]

After having used Nickel rounds during 20 years I switched to flats :
- chromes on my p bass
- fender on my jazz bass
I play mostly modern rock, and use a little more pick than fingers.
And I have to say that I find my sound more easy to set in my band with these flats than with my rounds.
I don't how to explain, but the tone seems to be more focused on the low mids/ mid mids, and then my tone is less boomy, more bassy and cuts through the mix nicely, in a very simple and bassy way. I hear the pitch in the low mids area.
I guess it depends a lot on how the other members of the band are eq'ed, but in my case I prefer the tone of the flats.
By the way, I'm not looking for cristal highs tones.

 

[Pier_]

I don't how to explain, but the tone seems to be more focused on the low mids/ mid mids, and then my tone is less boomy, more bassy and cuts through the mix nicely

that's exactly what I love in flatwounds! they perfectly fill the space where usually the bass belongs, between the lows of the drum and the guitar spectrum.

I've never actually understood the research for crispy highs from the bass. that sound don't help cutting through the mix... I can understand those contexts where the bass must only make the "booom" on the bottom, but in those kind of music the bass usually doubles the guitar to achieve a "big sound", not to cut through.

So on my Stingray should sound similar

think about Cliff Williams since the Ballbreaker album with the ACDC. he started using his 70's Stingray with D'Addario Chromes on it, and the sound is HUGE.

take a song like Hail Caesar, after the solo there's a part with only drum-bass-voice, and the sound is still a growly, not rattleing, scooped tone. the equalizer is there to help!

David J from the Bauhaus uses them since the 80's, and in the last album (from some years ago) he uses 45-100 Chromes on his Precision.

I really like this video-comparison, for example:



flats only takes the equalization in another way, making it sound bigger and fatter, but not muddy.

we are used to think that flats sound muddy only because we associate them with the 50's and 60's, when the bass was usually played with foam mute, tone rolled of and picked/fingered near the neck...

this is a typical Stingray-with-flats:

 

[ticol07]

that's exactly what I love in flatwounds! they perfectly fill the space where usually the bass belongs, between the lows of the drum and the guitar spectrum.

I've never actually understood the research for crispy highs from the bass. that sound don't help cutting through the mix... I can understand those contexts where the bass must only make the "booom" on the bottom, but in those kind of music the bass usually doubles the guitar to achieve a "big sound", not to cut through.



think about Cliff Williams since the Ballbreaker album with the ACDC. he started using his 70's Stingray with D'Addario Chromes on it, and the sound is HUGE.

take a song like Hail Caesar, after the solo there's a part with only drum-bass-voice, and the sound is still a growly, not rattleing, scooped tone. the equalizer is there to help!

David J from the Bauhaus uses them since the 80's, and in the last album (from some years ago) he uses 45-100 Chromes on his Precision.

I really like this video-comparison, for example:



flats only takes the equalization in another way, making it sound bigger and fatter, but not muddy.

we are used to think that flats sound muddy only because we associate them with the 50's and 60's, when the bass was usually played with foam mute, tone rolled of and picked/fingered near the neck...

this is a typical Stingray-with-flats:

On my own I understand that some people like gritty highs and scooped tone. In certain cases it works well.
But I never could use this kind of tone with good results for the music I play.
The only thing that can be a bit disapointing with flats is when there's only the bass in a song. At this point flats can sound less rich than rounds. But as it only concerns a few short moments in a gig, I don't really consider that as a problem.

And for those who dig playing with a pick, the sound of flats played that way is absolutely gorgeous : punch and clarity with the right level of lows.

Another good surprise was that with flats my jazz bass with the 2 pickups maxed sounds really great in a mix. With my rounds I always had to cut a bit one of the pickups to get more mids.

And the real advantage if you like the tone of flats is that they keep the same tone a long long time.

The only way to know is to try, keeping in mind that depending on the brands mids are more or less present.

 

[michael_t]

When I first acquired my Fender Jazz five and a half years ago, I had it set up with a set of D'A Chromes flats, which stayed on it for four years. Then about a year and and half ago, when I started playing in church, I went on a string journey because someone had advised me I needed a set of rounds for "modern music", including the Contemporary Christian Praise and Worship music.

My journey will be coming to an end at the end of this month as I will be coming back home where I started, i.e. flats, except I will be trying out the Fender 9050 this time around.

The only thing that can be a bit disappointing with flats is when there's only the bass in a song. At this point flats can sound less rich than rounds.

I have to agree a set of rounds do sound "richer" through my headphones when I'm quietly practicing at home; flats do tend to sound a bit "dull and boring" in comparison. I have to keep reminding myself it's not how they sound on their own that counts; it's how they come alive in a band mix.

And for those who dig playing with a pick, the sound of flats played that way is absolutely gorgeous : punch and clarity with the right level of lows.

I've been playing finger-style 100% of the time as I have never liked the sound of the pick-style with rounds. This is something I would like to learn to do once I'm back with flats.

Another good surprise was that with flats my jazz bass with the 2 pickups maxed sounds really great in a mix.

The only way I play my Jazz is with both pickups full on all the time, and I've been noticing it can get lost in a mix with rounds, especially with two electric guitars blaring.

And the real advantage if you like the tone of flats is that they keep the same tone a long long time.

I've gone through three sets of rounds in 18 months, while the 4-yr-old Chromes I took off were still going strong. Hopefully, the new Fenders will serve me well at least for the next few years.

So is there a place for flats in "modern music"? Absolutely!

 

[Pharsalien]

Probably more then you think....they just tell their guitarists they're rounds

 

[JimmyM]

Interesting topic ! I consider flats a lot today (I'm thinking about Thomastik Flats) but I'm afraid that flats are "the strings of the past" and in today music they're too vintage, oldschool and not versatile as roundwounds. I've got only one bass so it's hard to me to choose if I have to stay with rounds or put TI flats and forget about change my strings for next 5-8 years lol I tried D'Addario Chromes couple years ago and I like them. I don't know... What do you guys think about that ? I'm quite versatile player - sometimes I play with rock bands then other day I play with alternative band, blues, funk, r&b hip-hop, reggae then maby jazzy things or even wedding party ?

I love flats in the studio, but about 4 years I switched over to flats for live work and loved it, then had a wild hair one night and strung one of my basses with rounds. Everyone who had an opinion told me they liked the rounds a lot better, and I had to agree with them because subsequent attempts to bring back flats have been met with a live sound I didn't like as much as using rounds.

 

[dukeandrews]

My journey will be coming to an end at the end of this month as I will be coming back home where I started, i.e. flats, except I will be trying out the Fender 9050 this time around.

I have been on a flats journey for a little over a year. God bless TB classifieds! I would be broke otherwise. 9050s were one of my first sets. I wasn't crazy about their tone or tension. They seem very similar in feel to Chromes but a duller sound.

You owe it to yourself to try out TI jazz flats. I hate to admit it, but they were worth every penny. The only reason I tried them was because of the constant praise they get around here.