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Fodera Club Part IV

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#41
I honestly believe that there is exactly ZERO difference in what an instrument is called when it comes to resale value...it is 100% about supply and demand. In many ways, Joel's bass may have a higher resale value because of the preamp and dual pup configuration -- far more people order our instruments configured that way than with no preamp and only one dual coil pickup.

The reality is that everything from a production standpoint that went into Anthony's bass also went into Joel's bass...the same quality woods, the same hand carving, everything...we would just no longer refer to it as an Anthony Jackson Presentation.
 
#42
maybe you got a point, but I've certainly sold a lot of foderas to collectors (10+) and don't feel that way. In fact, I remember a true presentation actually having a harder time selling then what I think Joel has.

I had an AJ contrabass that the only thing different was the bottom horn point differently than the usual contrabass, no issues selling it.
 
#43
Just Thumpin' said:
I honestly believe that there is exactly ZERO difference in what an instrument is called when it comes to resale value...it is 100% about supply and demand. In many ways, Joel's bass may have a higher resale value because of the preamp and dual pup configuration -- far more people order our instruments configured that way than with no preamp and only one dual coil pickup.

The reality is that everything from a production standpoint that went into Anthony's bass also went into Joel's bass...the same quality woods, the same hand carving, everything...we would just no longer refer to it as an Anthony Jackson Presentation.
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I agree with you on everything you wrote, for players and people who order in the short term.

My point, which I'm still hoping can be heard :), has to do with collectors and long -term value. This is not a "regular" Fodera, and IMO in 20 years the kind of people who may be interested in a piece like this - who may or may not have any investment in specs or playing music- may very well care what its called or known as.

Lineage and title can matter to collectors of fine things whether they are instruments, paintings, or any collectable in our culture. Again, no one here can say what it will or will not mean in 20 years.

(IMO:))
 
#44
lamarjones said:
maybe you got a point, but I've certainly sold a lot of foderas to collectors (10+) and don't feel that way. In fact, I remember a true presentation actually having a harder time selling then what I think Joel has.

I had an AJ contrabass that the only thing different was the bottom horn point differently than the usual contrabass, no issues selling it.
Click to expand...

Personally, I'm glad that you found this experience. I care more about the "thing" as an instrument than anything else, believe me.
 
#45
peterpalmieri said:
I am curious what the concensus is where there is at least one other AJ bass on the Fodera website with a chestnut top and pink ivory fingerboard. Is there only one single formula, as the listed specs on the site, that constitutes an AJ in the eyes of AJ himself or Fodera or is the wood choice open to interpretation?
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Pete,
I believe the instrument you are refering to is the Presentation that was Anthony's personal instrument one iteration before his current instrument, and is known as #9. His current instrument is #10.

Jim
 
#47
The whole name = price thing is kinda whacky... Next thing you know players who own a Beez will feel ripped cause it's now an Imperial II??? C'mon... A Fodera bass is one for a lifetime and it's up to the player if they want to pay a price because of a model name.
 
#48
78Jazzlover said:
I agree with you on everything you wrote, for players and people who order in the short term.

My point, which I'm still hoping can be heard :), has to do with collectors and long -term value. This is not a "regular" Fodera, and IMO in 20 years the kind of people who may be interested in a piece like this - who may or may not have any investment in specs or playing music- may very well care what its called or known as.

Lineage and title can matter to collectors of fine things whether they are instruments, paintings, or any collectable in our culture. Again, no one here can say what it will or will not mean in 20 years.

(IMO:))
Click to expand...

So you are saying that you see this as a bass for the museum?
It is a musical instrument after all and Fodera is not Picasso and to take this approach sounds somewhat dangerous to me..I find it hard to put into words but to me it really sounds off.

And if, as you say no one can say what it will mean in 20 years, it's all irrelevant now anyways and it can just be a bass which is what it is, if I'm not mistaken?

Unless , of course I'm misreading your post :).
 
#50
I think Anthony and the Fodera folks should design a brand new instrument, call it the Presentation 2, and make that the one that "can't be customized". That way everyone who has the origional Presentation can still call it a Presentation. Win Win I think :smug:
 
#52
You know, after thinking about it for a while, those that say it matters whether or not it's still called a "Presentation" may have a point. Particularly from a re-sale standpoint.

The serial number and the invoice both say it's a "Presentation." Vinnie himself said it was a Presentation when I took deliver of it. Clearly it was a number of years ago (over 10 at this point) but I would hope Vinnie wouldn't back pedal on that one.

It's great that the Fodera guys have agreed with AJ that going forward there can be no variation on what constitutes an AJP, but those customers who got onboard earlier shouldn't be penalized.

If Fodera now say it is no longer a Presentation, I certainly take a significant hit in re-sale. It's a bit like Chevy calling and saying your Corvette is now known as Chevette...

Not that I would ever consider selling it but it certainly is a valid point.
 
#53
I have to disagree... I think this whole debate is ludicrous...
You could call it the 'Pete Wentz Coffee Table' and people in the Fodera market are still going to know exactly what it is and what it's worth...

More importantly, you could sell it as a 'Customised Presentation,' exactly what it is, and what I imagine you would have sold it as before... I'm sure Anthony won't chime in on your Ebay Auction! People are still going to sell a Beezelite as a Beezelite... if that's what it was when it was ordered.

Fodera changing the name of the instrument isn't going to decrease value... And if you're not selling, then who cares!
 
#54
peterpalmieri said:
Thanks for the info Jim. Are the prior 8 instruments in existence still?
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When I visited the Fodera shop about 5 years ago there were one or two hanging on the wall. One of them was the "Public Access" bass, in reference to the Steve Khan album that Anthony Jackson used it on. Of course it had a number, I think it might have been #4 but I'm not sure. It was a double cutaway, so I don't think it would be known as a Presentation. I'm not sure when that name was created, probably in conjunction with the single cutaway design. My understanding is that the number corresponds to the sequence of instruments that Fodera made for Anthony.

I seem to recall a couple of posts by people who owned some of the other numbered instruments, 5 and 8 maybe. I did a quick search and didn't come up with anything. The instruments must be out there, barring a fire or something where one could get destroyed.

FWIW,

Jim
 
#55
cnltb said:
So you are saying that you see this as a bass for the museum?
It is a musical instrument after all and Fodera is not Picasso and to take this approach sounds somewhat dangerous to me..I find it hard to put into words but to me it really sounds off.

And if, as you say no one can say what it will mean in 20 years, it's all irrelevant now anyways and it can just be a bass which is what it is, if I'm not mistaken?

Unless , of course I'm misreading your post :).
Click to expand...


How is it that I can write in my posts that my personal feeling is that it is a musical instrument first and thats what I value most...and then I read this? I sometimes shake my head at these things...:rolleyes:

It also seems I cant type enough times here that its not just players in the market now, or thinking of ordering now, that I expect to be the only people interested in this bass to buy...please..someone think beyond the box!! I do believe these few Fodera Presentations do have the **potential** to become if not museum pieces, but rather obscure collectables to a certain market BEYOND Talkbass, Bass forums and musicians....

Changing the lineage and title IMO would impact resale price in that context.

Do I think its logical or "right"? NO lol . Just saying that there is another long term side to this.
 
#56
chris.gotfunk said:
I really don't know what my point is here, just tired of seeing this arguement. Joel paid HIS money for this bass and anyone that knows about AJ, Fodera or high end basses will know this is not an exact AJ Presentation. To me, Joel can call it anything he wants. Most of all, it is a Fodera and a gorgeous one at that.
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Wait, why are you arguing against me? You're saying the same thing I am.

I don't think you were reading what I was saying the right way. I'm arguing for Joel, not against him.
 
#58
78Jazzlover said:
How is it that I can write in my posts that my personal feeling is that it is a musical instrument first and thats what I value most...and then I read this? I sometimes shake my head at these things...:rolleyes:
.
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That's real simple.
I wrote on account of the post I quotes and not on that of your posting history.:)
 
#60
78Jazzlover said:
:)

Might be a good idea to read pertinent posts immediately preceding the most current one to follow the most current discussion fully.

:D
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It might indeed.
I still feel funny about bringing collectors and resale value into it though-although I get what you are saying but have personally never had an instrument made with a view to selling it again. :-)
 
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