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Fodera Club Part XXVII

Truth (to me) is that, yes they are expensive, and you might need to wait a very long time, but they will only just sound like a bass. They might play well, sound great, but at the end of the day, it's a piece of wood with some strings. In my mind you only pay 3x because you want a fodera (and whatever comes with it), not because I expect to get something 3x better.

We are not in the 90's anymore, « normal » basses are incredibly better than they used to be even for a fraction of the price. The fact that cheap basses got better doesn't mean that expensive basses also got significantly better.
I both agree and disagree with this lol

On the one hand, I'm with you that they "only just sound like a bass" and are "a piece of wood with some strings." But, on the other hand, isn't sounding like a bass the fundamental goal? I certainly don't want my Fodera to sound like a celesta or an oud :laugh: And aren't we missing some key elements when we reduce quality to "they might play well, sound great" and price?

Let's start with quality: I had long thought Foderas were marketing hype because solid-body guitars don't require nearly the same level of craftsmanship as an acoustic instrument. With acoustic guitars and double bassi I can hear and see the difference in the best instruments. With bass guitars I felt that the differences, while real, disappeared at a much lower point than with acoustics. (Indeed, this is your point about us not being "in the 90's anymore.") But one day I saw a Fodera on Craigslist near me in Manhattan so I went to check it out. And it floored me. I genuinely heard and felt the quality difference. That wasn't the right bass for me (it was 33" scale, for one, and I play 35" and 36" because they're closer to the mensur of my double bass), but it got me thinking. So I made a point of playing more Foderas whenever I could for a couple years. (That was fairly easy to do because Rudy's Music in Soho would have one in on occasion. I think I found one at Sam Ash as well.) And then I found mine in the classifieds here. Other than wishing the neck were a bit chunkier (thicker/deeper, not wider), it's perfect for me and I'm very, very happy with it. I get it's not the bass for everyone, but the quality of sound (and craftsmanship, materials, and ergonomics) cannot be denied and I have yet to play a bass guitar which surpasses it. If I were to do so, I'd sell my Fodera and buy the superior tool.

This brings us to your point about price: I don't think anyone seriously expects a Fodera to sound "3x better" (however one evaluates that) than instruments which cost 3x less; I'm pretty sure bassists understand that our instruments follow the law of diminishing returns and therefore the price difference will never reflect 1:1 the quality difference. A $15,000 Fodera does not sound three times better than a $5,000 Elrick or Marleaux—or, for that matter, a $5,000 Fodera.

But this doesn't mean the quality difference is negligible or that the more expensive instruments aren't worth it. Worth, of course, is something that is highly personal and highly subjective. I think the price difference is worth it—certainly when buying secondhand; when buying new, some Fodera prices can be quite silly (looking at you, upcharge for Brazilian Rosewood fingerboard)—but this determination is something each of us must make for ourselves. Are you willing to pay twice the money for something that is just 25% better? Are you willing to pay twice that again for another 10%? What about twice that yet again to squeeze out another 5% in quality? Can you hear the differences between these price points? Can your fellow musicians? Can your audience? Or maybe you can't hear a difference, but you can feel one—ergonomics matter as well. My point is the difference in price will never be reflective of the difference in quality—you can successfully perform most gigs with a $200 bass or with a $20,000—so focusing on a return in quality that reflects the additional money spent misses other factors we should consider. For example, there's the pleasure of playing an instrument that feels or sounds just a bit better to you. I find this inspires me to practice more (if I'm fighting an instrument or it makes my wrist ache after an hour, I'm not going to play it as much) and to play more confidently (because I'm finally getting the sound I want, the sound I hear in my head) and thus more freely and creatively as well.
 
No, I actually agree with that too. I was mostly trying to highlight the point about diminishing returns. I'd have a hard time arguing it's any better than my Ken Smith (quality wise). If anything I would be tempted to argue otherwise (but I won't because that's the wrong topic ;) )

I had one Fodera that I just didn't bond with at all (actually two but one was way worse for my tastes and I bought it new). They could absolutely be the perfect instruments for someone else.

Now my (current)Fodera is worth every penny to me because it's the instrument I have to fight the least—but I can easily imagine someone else picking it up and thinking, 'All that money for this?' It's all very subjective, but we keep buying them so they must have something…
 
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Just happened upon this group. This is my 2005 Anthony Jackson Signature. Whatta bass!
IMG_7420.jpeg
 
Otto - I may have this wrong but I believe the SD DC's are the largest of the bunch and will require routing. Not exactly what you asked, but throwing out my understanding to learn in case someone corrects me on it.

Also, another tidbit on the exchange above: For what it's worth I sincerely go back and forth on whether I should be going with such oddball specs. I know there's no guarantee that it all "works" together on any custom, but even more so when you start toying with more and more specs. In your case it's really too bad it didn't, because unlike me I don't think you were gambling with that possibility at all. Your specs were perfectly reasonable. If mine doesn't hit the mark, on the other hand, well in fairness I don't think there's anyone else to blame but me!
Thanks for letting me know about the SD DC PU being bigger. It is crazy that Fodera installed 6 string DCB's on a 5-string bass. I agree with you with the wood combination that we select, it's our decision, I selected the wood combination because I had another bass with close wood specs, and it was a beast; I assume that was going to be the same case. However, many years ago when Jason was in the shop I remember when ordering a Fodera it was an incredible experience. I had a great conversation on the phone about tones, and it helped me selecting the right combination, now days you can't even talk to someone on the phone, it is all email. Customer service is great but not like before. They should go back to that experience. I know other boutique bass company that you still talk to the builders when you call.
 
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I want to bring a topic that makes me think day by day. I want to hear your thoughts, and please this is not to do a fight or argue but to get people's thoughts. Now that Fodera basses are being sold by Guitar Center/Musicians Friends, Sweetwater and other shops as their stock basses. Do you think Fodera has lost a little bit of that exclusivity. On Reverb there about 150 Fodera's for sale, before it was hard to get one unless you order one.
 
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Now that Fodera basses are being sold by Guitar Center/Musicians Friends, Sweetwater and other shops as their stock basses. Do you think Fodera has lost a little bit of that exclusivity. On Reverb there about 150 Fodera's for sale, before it was hard to get one unless you order one.
I do not think so, at least not for the reasons you name. Fodera has long been sold by big dealers like Thomann, and Reverb has been full of Foderas since pre-pandemic times. I don't recall thinking to myself "I never see a Fodera for sale."

But does the growth of "standard" products diminish the brand's exclusivity? Sure, I can see that (though as @Juzh notes, a standard is not the same as a custom). But it also allows more musicians to have access to a great bass and that's a wonderful thing.
 
I want to bring a topic that makes me think day by day. I want to hear your thoughts, and please this is not to do a fight or argue but to get people's thoughts. Now that Fodera basses are being sold by Guitar Center/Musicians Friends, Sweetwater and other shops as their stock basses. Do you think Fodera has lost a little bit of that exclusivity. On Reverb there about 150 Fodera's for sale, before it was hard to get one unless you order one.
I didn't buy a Fodera because of "exclusivity". BUT...I did buy it because the experience of owning a Fodera used to be like being part of a family. The personal touches really made you feel special, like you were part of the company. I agree...a lot of that shine and shimmer has been lacking since Jason's departure. Mike is a nice guy. But he's no Jason.
 
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Had a truly great experience with Jason. Having a truly great experience with Bendy!

Beyond that, it feels highly questionable to discuss the whole organization through the lens of two individuals. There are endless variables applicable to each era. Seeking to distill all of them down and then attribute all experiences to just these those two guys is a huge whiff. They have important roles, surely, but Fodera is an established company with (presumably) decision makers like Vinny, Joey, Laura and others also calling the shots and affecting policy/the customer experience. The underlying conversation about how experiences are vs. how they were is valid.. but is it fair to talk as if two of the more customer facing individuals are responsible for all of that?
 
Wow - would mind you mind sharing specs? Looks amazing! Bet that B-string sounds massive.
Not at all. It was built in 2005. Sam, at Fodera, looked it up for me. It was originally sent to The Groove Shoppe. I bought it from The Bass Gallery in London. Burl Camphor top, Burl Chestnut tone block, Mahogany body wings, Maple and Purpleheart neck w/Ebony fingerboard. Mike Pope pre, not sure who made the pup (it's encased in wood). Hipshot tuners. Not sure about the bridge. It has that extended B string that tunes backward, located at the top of the headstock, where the A tuner should be. Oh, and a brass nut. Very focused sound with some emphasis on the upper mids. Plays like a dream, weighs a ton (12lbs) I do use it on "nicer" restaurant and vineyard gigs. It's one of 6 6er's here.
 
Not at all. It was built in 2005. Sam, at Fodera, looked it up for me. It was originally sent to The Groove Shoppe. I bought it from The Bass Gallery in London. Burl Camphor top, Burl Chestnut tone block, Mahogany body wings, Maple and Purpleheart neck w/Ebony fingerboard. Mike Pope pre, not sure who made the pup (it's encased in wood). Hipshot tuners. Not sure about the bridge. It has that extended B string that tunes backward, located at the top of the headstock, where the A tuner should be. Oh, and a brass nut. Very focused sound with some emphasis on the upper mids. Plays like a dream, weighs a ton (12lbs) I do use it on "nicer" restaurant and vineyard gigs. It's one of 6 6er's here.
Amazing - thank you for sharing!
 
Not at all. It was built in 2005. Sam, at Fodera, looked it up for me. It was originally sent to The Groove Shoppe. I bought it from The Bass Gallery in London. Burl Camphor top, Burl Chestnut tone block, Mahogany body wings, Maple and Purpleheart neck w/Ebony fingerboard. Mike Pope pre, not sure who made the pup (it's encased in wood). Hipshot tuners. Not sure about the bridge. It has that extended B string that tunes backward, located at the top of the headstock, where the A tuner should be. Oh, and a brass nut. Very focused sound with some emphasis on the upper mids. Plays like a dream, weighs a ton (12lbs) I do use it on "nicer" restaurant and vineyard gigs. It's one of 6 6er's here.
Very cool! What's the scale length? I'm assuming around 33" or 34" since it has the extended B headstock.
 
I both agree and disagree with this lol

On the one hand, I'm with you that they "only just sound like a bass" and are "a piece of wood with some strings." But, on the other hand, isn't sounding like a bass the fundamental goal? I certainly don't want my Fodera to sound like a celesta or an oud :laugh: And aren't we missing some key elements when we reduce quality to "they might play well, sound great" and price?

Let's start with quality: I had long thought Foderas were marketing hype because solid-body guitars don't require nearly the same level of craftsmanship as an acoustic instrument. With acoustic guitars and double bassi I can hear and see the difference in the best instruments. With bass guitars I felt that the differences, while real, disappeared at a much lower point than with acoustics. (Indeed, this is your point about us not being "in the 90's anymore.") But one day I saw a Fodera on Craigslist near me in Manhattan so I went to check it out. And it floored me. I genuinely heard and felt the quality difference. That wasn't the right bass for me (it was 33" scale, for one, and I play 35" and 36" because they're closer to the mensur of my double bass), but it got me thinking. So I made a point of playing more Foderas whenever I could for a couple years. (That was fairly easy to do because Rudy's Music in Soho would have one in on occasion. I think I found one at Sam Ash as well.) And then I found mine in the classifieds here. Other than wishing the neck were a bit chunkier (thicker/deeper, not wider), it's perfect for me and I'm very, very happy with it. I get it's not the bass for everyone, but the quality of sound (and craftsmanship, materials, and ergonomics) cannot be denied and I have yet to play a bass guitar which surpasses it. If I were to do so, I'd sell my Fodera and buy the superior tool.

This brings us to your point about price: I don't think anyone seriously expects a Fodera to sound "3x better" (however one evaluates that) than instruments which cost 3x less; I'm pretty sure bassists understand that our instruments follow the law of diminishing returns and therefore the price difference will never reflect 1:1 the quality difference. A $15,000 Fodera does not sound three times better than a $5,000 Elrick or Marleaux—or, for that matter, a $5,000 Fodera.

But this doesn't mean the quality difference is negligible or that the more expensive instruments aren't worth it. Worth, of course, is something that is highly personal and highly subjective. I think the price difference is worth it—certainly when buying secondhand; when buying new, some Fodera prices can be quite silly (looking at you, upcharge for Brazilian Rosewood fingerboard)—but this determination is something each of us must make for ourselves. Are you willing to pay twice the money for something that is just 25% better? Are you willing to pay twice that again for another 10%? What about twice that yet again to squeeze out another 5% in quality? Can you hear the differences between these price points? Can your fellow musicians? Can your audience? Or maybe you can't hear a difference, but you can feel one—ergonomics matter as well. My point is the difference in price will never be reflective of the difference in quality—you can successfully perform most gigs with a $200 bass or with a $20,000—so focusing on a return in quality that reflects the additional money spent misses other factors we should consider. For example, there's the pleasure of playing an instrument that feels or sounds just a bit better to you. I find this inspires me to practice more (if I'm fighting an instrument or it makes my wrist ache after an hour, I'm not going to play it as much) and to play more confidently (because I'm finally getting the sound I want, the sound I hear in my head) and thus more freely and creatively as well.
Great discussion... I would just add: Bear in mind one's skillset. A mediocre player is less likely to detect the differences between a $2500 and $4500 instrument. If you're the single riffer type, who slams out a heavy-handed thump 'n' pluck with everything dimed, you're probably not the type of player that's going to understand the reason behind the price spread.
 
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I'll chime in on some of the things being discussed above.

I never saw/heard a Fodera in person until 2015 when I was running sound for a country band at the Iowa State Fair. I was blown away...pretty much a perfect sounding bass. It was a 6-string Monarch or AJ.

I finally purchased a Fodera standard not quite 2 years ago. It is a perfect bass. I love Fenders. This standard is alder body, walnut top, maple neck, pao ferro fingerboard. It sounds like a perfect Fender.

I couldn't be happier with my Fodera standard Monarch, but put a down payment on a custom within a few months of owning it and will likely receive that bass yet this year.

Are Foderas common? In my opinion, no. That said, can you find one if you want one? Yes. And that's a good thing. I love that my standard looks nice enough to be appreciated by band leaders, but most younger bass players show zero interest in it and don't know the name Fodera. They're all after the latest shiny new Fender copy basses.

I am not any kind of a monster player, but I think I may not have been able to appreciate a Fodera twenty years ago or understand it's value. At this point in my process it was a night-and-day revelatory experience first playing my standard. I do still use and love my old P-bass for some blues and dive bar gigs.

Back in the late '90s-early 2000s I lived across town from Steve York. I remember him putting his '57 P-bass and '64 jazz bass up for sale to fund a Fodera build. I thought he was crazy and still wish I would've pulled the trigger on his '57 P (stripped body, non-original pickups/tuners) for like $1700.

Steve moved to Mexico not long after that and lived out his remaining years playing his Foderas at resorts. God rest his soul.

 
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Mike is a nice guy. But he's no Jason.
I agree Jason is … exceptional but let's be fair to the guys too: Fodera probably sells 3x more than pre-Covid (I am throwing a random number obviously). It's a lot easier to preserve a family feel when you sell a few basses a year. I can only imagine that the guys are swimming in emails and orders right now.

Part of it is « a choice » (think: Standard) but it's probably what it takes to keep making those instruments while paying NY rent and wages these days - or simply running a bass business.

At the end of the day, those basses are truely special (so are MTD, Ken Smith, Fbass etc). Either you agree and you buy one, or you don't and it's a very good news for your wallet. I wish I was still part of the club of those who think they aren't worth it!
 
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I'll chime in on some of the things being discussed above.

I never saw/heard a Fodera in person until 2015 when I was running sound for a country band at the Iowa State Fair. I was blown away...pretty much a perfect sounding bass. It was a 6-string Monarch or AJ.

I finally purchased a Fodera standard not quite 2 years ago. It is a perfect bass. I love Fenders. This standard is alder body, walnut top, maple neck, pao ferro fingerboard. It sounds like a perfect Fender.

I couldn't be happier with my Fodera standard Monarch, but put a down payment on a custom within a few months of owning it and will likely receive that bass yet this year.

Are Foderas common? In my opinion, no. That said, can you find one if you want one? Yes. And that's a good thing. I love that my standard looks nice enough to be appreciated by band leaders, but most younger bass players show zero interest in it and don't know the name Fodera. They're all after the latest shiny new Fender copy basses.

I am not any kind of a monster player, but I think I may not have been able to appreciate a Fodera twenty years ago or understand it's value. At this point in my process it was a night-and-day revelatory experience first playing my standard. I do still use and love my old P-bass for some blues and dive bar gigs.

Back in the late '90s-early 2000s I lived across town from Steve York. I remember him putting his '57 P-bass and '64 jazz bass up for sale to fund a Fodera build. I thought he was crazy and still wish I would've pulled the trigger on his '57 P (stripped body, non-original pickups/tuners) for like $1700.

Steve moved to Mexico not long after that and lived out his remaining years playing his Foderas at resorts. God rest his soul.

I have owned basses by Lakeland , Celinder , Spector, Kenneth Lawrence, MTD Moollon , Wal and have owned four Fodera's now down to one.
I have preferred the sound of some of my other basses over Fodera. But IMO none of the other basses match Fodera in playability. I setup all of my basses the same I really love low action. My other basses come close but there is some extra mojo in Fodera's necks that I haven't experienced in other basses. Is it worth the extra$$$ it was to me. Ironically the two I custom ordered I ended up selling Love the Emperor body shape, but couldn't gel with the 19mm five string spacing. Which is strange to me because my Imperial five has the same specs and the neck is absolutely perfect for my short fingers.
 
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