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For Fun: Suppose SUNN came back and...
- Thread starter MEKer
- Start date
Seems to me that a Sunn head with a couple of newer, more efficient cabs would move some air.I had a Dynaco 60 Watt tube amp and a 2-15 JBL D140F Cab (Sunn Clone) back in the day. With those, and the rest of the group, I have the hearing aids to prove it.
Yes, all of that, except...let’s get some historical points cleared up. The Kingsmen did not ‘write’ “Louie Louie”. That was composed by Los Angeles R&B singer Richard Berry(no relation to Chuck)in the 50’s. By the time the Kingsmen tried their hand at it, there had already been other regional covers by a few other Northwest bands, one of which was by a pre-fame Paul Revere and the Raiders. The bassist on the Kingsmen recording was a guy named Rod Nordby. He and the single’s vocalist, Jack Ely, soon left the band right after the record finally took off, a whole sordid tale that I won’t get into now. Only afterwards, when bookings for the band increased, did Norm Sundholm join on bass. Playing to larger crowds, his ‘small cab’ piggyback Fender Bassman was overwhelmed. He approached his brother, Conrad, an audio hobbyist teacher, about upgrades or a better idea. From that, the company evolved.
200S with the bottom half of a 215S cab... While I wouldn't mind a 200S cab, this 1X15 brings the Thump! And yes @Stumbo an fDeck HPF is wonderful in front of it!
-robert
The Concert amp was also my first amp, with a matching Sunn bottom , but don't remember if it was 2x15 or 2x12 ??? Loved it. Yeah, GREAT tone and even though not super powerful, really brought a clear low end that could thunder.
No one is going to care; besides the fact that, in the late 90’s, Fender tried to bring back the line, and massively bungled the attempt, younger players(at this time)have no historical reference point to attract them. Perhaps a handful who are obsessed with vintage gear and music of that era that are looking for a ‘vibe’. Those older players who do have that emotional attachment, either gave up on the gear due to newer equipment coming along(coupled with weight and power issues)OR still have and maintain/use the gear; only they understand the presence of these amps and still slog them around, lower back willing. Sunn bass amps were the first specifically developed for the instrument(as opposed to refurbished guitar amps). Kustom was a distant second with minimal innovation, (US) Vox never really seemed to get it together, plus they were on the wane. Only after the Acoustic 360 and Ampeg SVT came along(both of which were two entirely different new ways of going about bass amplification)did Sunn’s position start to slip(Fender was always doing a bad job of playing catch-up). But none of this detracts from the fact that the 200s, 2000s, Coliseums and Model T’s are killer bass gear. The earlier tube amps were beefy and badass looking, a visual match to the emerging Marshall guitar stacks of the time. Even though, on paper, the wattage seemed lacking, due to the perfect storm of ultra linear amp design and unique cabs with JBL efficiency, they still delivered power. My 200s held it’s own against Fender Twins. But realistically, the time has passed; there’s been attempts by Hovercraft, Emperor, and similar to recapture the vibe, but it’s a niche market, not to mention all the small builder/boutique stuff mimicking the solid state ‘red knob’ era(which I personally have little interest in)usually through pedals and preamps.
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Yeah I had one of those goofy little Dynaco's too. I was like 16 or 17 and it sound great! New '72 Precision Bass, Dynaco amp with 6l6 gc's and 18" speaker haha! Damn...I had a Dynaco 60 Watt tube amp and a 2-15 JBL D140F Cab (Sunn Clone) back in the day. With those, and the rest of the group, I have the hearing aids to prove it
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Dumb question regarding the 200S and the 2000S: Were the tone stacks the Fender type or the Ampeg Baxandall/James type? I occasionally played through them back when but I don't remember which they were.
A guitarist that I've played with for years used to be a bass player. At one time, he had a Sunn Concert Bass and 215S cab... At some point, he decided that it would be a good idea to cut the cab in half and make 2 1X15 cabs, (ah, the innocence of youth!)... Got rid of the top cab years ago, and a few months ago, he sold me the bottom half for a song. Yeah, it was a dumb impulse, but he did a good job. It is a great sounding cab!
I've always loved my 200S head... mostly played through a TL-606 cab, which was, until a few months ago, my all time favorite 1X15... Dunno what it is about this pairing, but the modified Sunn cab, with the original square magnet speaker just "fits" better...
The fDeck really tightens up the low end on this setup and allows the head to punch like never before!
-robert
I was rocking a 70’s Sunn 2x15 cab along with a 70’s Traynor 2x15 cab in the early 90’s. You could find those things cheap. I ended up blowing one of the speakers in the Sunn cab and sold the cab for $100.
I can’t speak with certainty about the 200s/2000s heads, but as they were developed while Conrad Sundholm was still in charge, I would suspect that they were more Dynaco influenced, what ever that design might have been. I do know that, concerning both versions of the subsequent Model T(intended to be an all-purpose amp)developed by Hartzell after the Sundholm brothers bailed on the company, the MK 1 featured a Fender style preamp that mimicked the ‘59 Bassman, whereas MK 2 with the mid-shift switch(and there’s a clue)is more Ampeg-like. I own one of each, and to my ears the MK 1 sounds better, fuller, for bass, while MK 2 lends itself more to guitar than bass, not as much “umph”. Totally unscientific study, y’know.
Jim Carr
Dr. Jim
- Jan 21, 2006
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- Disclosures
- fEARful Kool-Aid dispensing liberal academic card-carrying union member Musicians Local 72-147
Be that as it may, there is no Sunn involved with the original single, nor any Sundholm, for that matter(in all likelihood, you’re hearing Fender). Yes, there is a would-be live promo shot of the band and probably the earliest Sunn gear, but that wouldn’t be any time before 1966, maybe late ‘65, long after the band’s 15 minutes was up. To me, the amps represent Acid Rock, Hard Rock, and proto-Metal; Noel Redding/JHE; The Airplane, The Dead, The Who’s ‘68 US tour and The Ox’s post-Hiwatt rig, The Blues Magoos, The MC5, Steppenwolf, Mountain, BB&A, The Stooges, Brownsville Station, Allmans, Jerry Scheff with the Doors AND Elvis(!), the PA system at Altamont(partially)and countless late 60’s/early 70’s garage bands, to name a few(and I’m not even going to get into The Melvins, Boris or Sunn O))...).
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If Sunn came back, they would probably be owned by Fender or GC and would make Chinese junk with a Sunn logo. Not like it has ever happened to any other companies.
If Sunn came back they would be the conquering heroes with the band the Kingsmen playing Louie Louie. It would be one joyous party. I would dance to Louie Louie all night. Woo hoo!
I have and occasionally use a Sunn 200S and a Sunn 412 cab both in excellent condition.
Hearing the earliest Sunn amps with both the Kingsmen and Paul Revere and the Raiders live here in the mid 60s was life changing. I had an Bassman at the time and the difference from the small sounding Fenders to the huge sounding Sunns was mind blowing. Since I could not afford a Sunn rig as a teenager I bought a clone! Built here in Eugene, Oregon.
In the last few years both head and cab of these rare Polaris (Sunn 200s clone) bass amps have popped up on the local CL and I snatched them up for peanuts.
Here's the Polaris head and 215 cab. It's a Dynaco Mk.3 amp with the cool blue jewel light. My original cab had JBL D140s. I got the amp running but I haven't fully restored them both yet, but am working on them.
Did it really work that well for the reincarnation of Acoustic Research Corp?
Acoustic, Kustom and Sunn all icons of the 70's and highly desirable gear in my opinion
I wish I had one of each in "showroom" condition to add to the collection
Acoustic, Kustom and Sunn all icons of the 70's and highly desirable gear in my opinion
I wish I had one of each in "showroom" condition to add to the collection
