Weird. My Realists sounded fine with a Shure A95U plugged into an Ashly MX508...to my surprise.
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Double Bass Forgot my mic, pick-up no gain
- Thread starter Jason Sypher
- Start date
Weird. My Realists sounded fine with a Shure A95U plugged into an Ashly MX508...to my surprise.
I use one of these Phil Jones Pre Amp. Has an internal battery or power source/wall wart. Has a Piezo or Mag Pickup switch. I get a nice strong signal out.
The latter case will be much more comfortable for the board. Some boards can handle a pickup straight in, but they're the exception.
I don’t want to make anyone uncomfortable
The HPF-pre 2 puts out +2db above the corner frequency, so yeah it's a little hotter with the pre, but I get a very usable mic-level signal going Realist->Mackie MDB-2P passive DI->board. I think going into a line-level input on the board would not work in either case, but I can definitely work with a passive DI alone into a mic input in a pinch.
The unbuffered input of passive DIs is sub-optimal for a piezo pickup (150 K ohm on my Mackie), but it definitely "works" for me (I get a decently strong signal to the board, but it doesn't sound as good as with a buffering pre-amp like the fdeck). FWIW the realist specifies 10 M ohm input impedance for best results but it is apparently fine with much lower input impedance (ref thread).
Ultimately I jones for some kind of active DI with buffered input that also has HPF,EQ, tuner, etc (ref thread), but this lil rig has been working for me to get a solid signal to the board with or without an amp: fdeck -> passive DI -> board and/or amp.
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Passive piezo pickup deliver a weak current. A low input impedance immediately after the pickup lets the signal break down more or less.
So a preamp/buffer with a high input impedance solves this problem and anything following can have a low input impedance as the output signal is string enough to feed that.
An FDeck HPFpre is a good and cheap solution and can drive any DI from the FOH people, passive or active.
Just make sure that the DI is following the preamp/buffer as the FOH personal typically put it in front of the preamp/buffer which gives you the same problem you just had.
And always have fresh batteries for the preamp if it doesn’t have a DI out and can be powered by phantom power.
So a preamp/buffer with a high input impedance solves this problem and anything following can have a low input impedance as the output signal is string enough to feed that.
An FDeck HPFpre is a good and cheap solution and can drive any DI from the FOH people, passive or active.
Just make sure that the DI is following the preamp/buffer as the FOH personal typically put it in front of the preamp/buffer which gives you the same problem you just had.
And always have fresh batteries for the preamp if it doesn’t have a DI out and can be powered by phantom power.
An old "tube screaner" pedal goes to every gig for these kinds of situations. Turn the volume up and the gain almost all the way off to get an instant boost for any signal. 'Not fancy, but so is not being heard. Bonus if you can turn the gain up a little and add some "grit".
I'll second the fact that the Vic's model B is the loudest piezo pickup I have used, often working fine without a preamp.
I'll second the fact that the Vic's model B is the loudest piezo pickup I have used, often working fine without a preamp.
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You guys are talking WAY over my head but I’m learning a lot. I’m such an acoustic player with zero knowledge of electronics, numbers, etc. I appreciate all the effort and support. My needs are small and simple, as am I.
As long as you have phantom power available. Unless I'm missing something on the specs.
I don't think a regular DI is going to boost the signal if that is what your problem was. You need a preamp like Grace Felix/Alix/Bix, Fishman Platinum or one of the Headway pres that actually has gain boost. I have a Fishman Platinum Stage and Headway EDM-1 and like both for different things, both of which are on the cheaper end of the spectrum.
Unless there's something wrong with Jason's pickup, the issue is that the Realist straight into a line input on the board just isn't going to have any signal strength for a variety of technical reasons. A DI like the Radial Stagebug SB-4 or Radial PZDI has a hi-Z input to interface with the piezo and unity gain to send the full signal strength from the pickup. Also, it plugs into a mic preamp with gobs of gain on tap, so there's no need to have another signal booster.
There's nothing wrong with those preamps suggested (all are great and have many useful features), and they would also solve the issue, but they might be more than Jason needs or wants to simply plug his bass into a typical mixing board on a pub gig.
I don‘t think this is the problem (unless the T(R)S input is fixed to line level). I think the voltage breaks down due to the low input impedance. Or both, the input impedance of line signals is typically around 10 to 50 KOhms.
And another problem can be the person behind the mixing desk. Because they are typically not familiar with piezo pickups (specially on low pitched instruments where the problem is larger than on violins and guitars), you need to know enough about electronics to allow or forbid things they want to do and have the equipment with you to give them a strong signal for the desk.
And if they don’t know how a DB sounds, you might need to give them instructions what to do (“less bass, much less bass and again less bass and a lot more mids”).
Had that with a stage crew a few days ago. Took me several times until the EUB sounded at least a bit like a DB, next day (some bands played in between) the EUB sounded again like a dark bass guitar and the announcement mic I got for one piece was shut down the whole time.
Sometimes I want to go to the desk and do it all by myself, but that is almost always incompatible with playing at the same time.
In another concert that could have been done purely acoustical (but the leader didn’t want that) I simply plugged out the pickup cable after a while because the bass sound was so bad. The desk operators got crazy then …
I'm playing a show this weekend where I know I'm going to have to do some FOH educating. My plan is to use the Vic's Model B with the RedEye for simplicity sake and hope to be able to make suggestions as to EQ, etc. At least I know there will be plenty of level and a reasonably clean, usable signal. This setup has worked in the past for similar situations and I assume it will this time- fingers crossed. 
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Yes, all great but I definitely was looking for something small enough to just keep it the top pocket of my mooradian so I always had it handy. Funny thing is, Ill probably never forget my mic again! But still there are small gigs where all the mic channels are taken and all that is left is a 1/4" input.
If you're dealing with a 1/4" input at times, you'll need a separately powered preamp rather than a DI. The Fdeck is probably your best option, or a Redeye. In general, DI's (active and passive) go into an XLR mic input and wouldn't provide any benefit if you only have a 1/4" input available.
Another one that I wouldn't hesitate to keep on hand in my bag is the MXR M-81. It has a DI, buffered 1/4" output, plenty of gain, high headroom, and runs off a 9V battery, DC jack, or phantom power. It also has a 3-band EQ if you want to use it. It's not much bigger than the Radial Stagebug DI. I've used mine with the Realist quite a bit and it always sounds good. It really comes down to your budget and the features you need to get the job done.
That's what I like about the stuff I have mounted on my DB... Never have to worry about forgetting any of it. But I do make a point of testing everything before I leave the house...
That said, I did forget to bring my wireless dongles to the last festival gig I played DB at, had to use a cable belonging to the FOH. Luckily in that case the only big loss was temporary freedom of movement. I'll probably not forget them again, too.
Btw, is there any reason this wouldn't work? I use it with my mounted Sennheiser e604 (which is a low impedance [350] dynamic mic) for amps that do not provide a mic input. Just for kicks I've also tested it with my mounted piezo system (which has a pre-amp) and it also works with that.
Earl
Supporting Member
Headway EDM-1 or HE. Small, light, battery powered, decent gain, correct impedance, EQ, HPF, phase switch (on the HE).
