Double Bass Forgot my mic, pick-up no gain

[Jason Sypher]

So I got to my Irish pub gig and realized I forgot my mic. It’s cool, I said, we can just use my pickup. Plugged my realist into the board and couldn’t get a sound. Realized I probably need something to boost the signal and wished I had a very small lightweight unit I could keep in my case for just such scenarios. What should I get?

 

[lowfreqgeek]

Did you use a DI or go straight into a lo-Z line input on the board?

A Radial PZDI into a mic pre has plenty of signal with a Realist, and sounds pretty good (as good as a pickup can sound, anyway).

 

[John Chambliss]

Red-Eye Preamp is my fav now. Will run off phantom power, internal battery, or wall wart. Small enough to fit in your pocket.

 

[Lee Moses]

Maybe you could just keep the mic in your case?

 

[Wasnex]

So I got to my pub gig and realized I forgot my mic. It’s cool, I said, we can just use my pickup. Plugged my realist into the board and couldn’t get a sound. Realized I probably need something to boost the signal and wished I had a very small lightweight unit I could keep in my case for just such scenarios. What should I get?

1/4" inputs on channels strips are usually balanced, line level. You should get a signal but I would expect it to be too weak to be useful.

If there is no sound with the gain on the channel strip wide open, I would suspect the pickup is dead or a cable is bad.

If the goal is to plug into the PA and not use an amp. You can use a DI to convert the pickup signal to mic level. Piezo pickups generally benefit from a high input impedance; however, IME the Realist doesn't seem to be very sensitive to low input impedance. I used to plug a Realist into a Shure A95U line matching transformer, and it worked fine. In this application, the A95U is essentially functioning as a passive DI.

If you don't intend to use an amp, a DI like a Countryman Type 85 should be very good with 10 Meg input impedance. The Thru on the Countryman is a switched hardwire connection. So if you use an amp, the input impedance will be placed in parallel with 10 Meg. If the amp's input impedance is 1 Meg, the combined impedance with the Type 85 is 909K, which is for all practical purposes is 1 Meg (IE close enough).

Radial makes some DIs with buffered Thrus designed for use with piezo pickups. The SB4 has 5 Meg input impedance and the Thru is always buffered. The PZDI input impedance can be switched between 220K, 1 Meg, and 10 Meg. The Thru on the PZDI can be switched to parallel or buffered.

 

[Don Hergert]

So I got to my pub gig and realized I forgot my mic. It’s cool, I said, we can just use my pickup. Plugged my realist into the board and couldn’t get a sound. Realized I probably need something to boost the signal and wished I had a very small lightweight unit I could keep in my case for just such scenarios. What should I get?

An SM-57 and a hand towel??? Not very sophisticated seated under your tailpiece, but just about any FOH tech knows how to use and balance it out. (An SM-58 could also be used as a vocal mic in a pinch).

Many folks are using a Vic's Model B as a backup. The bridge wing would have to be fitted, but these pickups are reliable and surprisingly strong without a pre.

If you really want a standby pre, the battery operated K&K mountable or belt-clip'ed pre-amps provide volume and rudimentary gain and EQ controls. Models provide single or multiple channels (with volume blending).

(Just so no one wonders if I practice what I preach, I carry an Audix OM2 (SM-58 clone) and a hand towel with my amp kit and I use a Vic's Model C with a mounted K&K Dual Channel Pro ST in volume settings that are too high for my mounted Sennheiser e604.)

 

[Ryan in PDX]

Hope the gig went well, all things considered!

Usually, anything is better than plugging a piezo straight into the board (as you now know). The ¼" cable fits both ends, much like a bootlace will between your tuning pegs and tailpiece.

Using a DI means you can use the mic preamps on the board - much higher gain for more signal. Active, high impedance DIs will almost always sound better with a piezo. (If you are using a preamp before the DI, then the DI's input impedance is irrelevant)

Radial and Countryman are built like tanks, and are "buy it for life" quality. I have not used the PZDI or SB4, but either would solve your problem with one unit, and I would buy either one without hesitation.

My go-to setup is my trusty fdeck pre with a passive radial "ProD2" DI. I have also plugged straight into my Countryman 85.

Any of the preamps with an XLR out marketed for piezos (e.g. redeye) will also do the trick. And I have used the 57 rubber-banded to the bridge and tailpiece successfully before as well.

Hope this helps, and don't hesitate to ask for any clarifications!

 

[Ryan in PDX]

Radial makes some DIs with buffered Thrus

PZDI has been at the top of my "if I ever need another DI" list for years now, and somehow I'd never even noticed the buffered thru option!

Same for the permabuffer on the SB4 thru... And it's so adorable...

 

[J-Bass RMR]

a very small lightweight unit I could keep in my case for just such scenarios. What should I get?

a spare SM57 microphone?
They're inexpensive and less clunky than a DI or Pre.

 

[JazznFunk]

I experienced a similar thing 20 years ago on a random bluegrass gig where I just had my bass, no amp. They tried to run my Realist through a Whirlwind IMP-2 and couldn't get a usable signal. Ended up stuffing an SM-57 in the bridge with a towel or something. Lesson learned to always have an active DI or preamp handy.

 

[lowfreqgeek]

PZDI has been at the top of my "if I ever need another DI" list for years now, and somehow I'd never even noticed the buffered thru option!

Same for the permabuffer on the SB4 thru... And it's so adorable...

I have a borrowed PZDI in my possession at the moment and it's a fantastic option with the variable HPF, variable input-Z (220k, 1Meg, 10Meg), and the buffered-thru option. I've used a J48 for electric for 15years and I'd definitely consider the PZDI as backup to my Grace Felix for DB.

 

[Jason Sypher]

Red-Eye Preamp is my fav now. Will run off phantom power, internal battery, or wall wart. Small enough to fit in your pocket.

Nice one. Thx.

 

[BobKay]

I just bought a K&K Pure XLR pre-amp. After using various others, I'm really pleased with this. Although I use it with a Yamaha SLB300, it solves one of the problems you can encounter with that bass. If the batteries fail, or if the internal pre-amp fails on the bass, you only get the piezo pickup signal from the bass, and you need an external pre-amp to boost the signal to a useable level. The K&K is small, light, runs on phantom power or 9-volt, has both an XLR and 1/4" output, phase reverse, and simple 3-band eq section. Nothing else, but those features are enough for me.

I tested it by removing the batteries and got a very useful signal, and was able to eq the piezo to a pleasing sound.

 

[Jason Sypher]

a spare SM57 microphone?
They're inexpensive and less clunky than a DI or Pre.

I have an AMT mic. Kind of like a DPA. I almost never forget it. I just thought it might be nice to have another option if I forget it again or there weren’t enough xlr inputs available on a board. I know I’ve plugged directly into a board before, or into a Sadowsky pre and then into the board. It wasn’t hi-fi but it got me through the gig. My home gigs are generally all acoustic intstruments like a trad Irish session. No drums.

 

[Pings Bass]

I always carry a passive DI.

 

[lowfreqgeek]

I always carry a passive DI.

With a Realist?

 

[Pings Bass]

With a Realist?

Yes. Copperhead. I usually use an fdeck hpf pre first, but it also works to go direct to the DI and then into any mic-level input.

 

[Wasnex]

PZDI has been at the top of my "if I ever need another DI" list for years now, and somehow I'd never even noticed the buffered thru option!

Same for the permabuffer on the SB4 thru... And it's so adorable...

The button for the buffer switch is not very obvious. I was not even aware of the feature when I bought my PZDI. I think I read about the switchable buffer here on TB and then wondered if mine was an older unit that lacked the feature. Dug into the manual and had a happy surprise.

FYI The switch is in the little hole on the side:

Perhaps sadly, I have never actually used the PZDI live. I wanted it, "just in case."

 

[lowfreqgeek]

I have an AMT mic. Kind of like a DPA. I almost never forget it. I just thought it might be nice to have another option if I forget it again or there weren’t enough xlr inputs available on a board. I know I’ve plugged directly into a board before, or into a Sadowsky pre and then into the board. It wasn’t hi-fi but it got me through the gig. My home gigs are generally all acoustic intstruments like a trad Irish session. No drums.

The Radial Stagebug 4 is a great little option if you want something small and light to have for backup. It's not as fully featured as the PZDI, but it's about half the size and has a hi-Z input made for piezos. It works well with the Realist, too.

I use an AMT mic, but almost always with my Felix so I have more local control if the sound system or person running it is questionable.

 

[lowfreqgeek]

Yes. Copperhead. I usually use an fdeck hpf pre first, but it also works to go direct to the DI and then into any mic-level input.

With the Fdeck, that's no problem. I've plugged my Copperhead straight into several passive DIs and didn't get anything that sounded like a bass out of it.