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Franklin Hide Glue

Discussion in 'Setup & Repair [DB]' started by Martin Sheridan, Jun 3, 2004.


  1. Martin Sheridan

    Martin Sheridan

    Jan 4, 2001
    Fort Madison, Iowa
    Bass Maker
    Thirty years ago I tried the Franklin Hide Glue which is pre-prepared and usable out of a plactic squeeze bottle. It wouldn't hold and became gummy in humid weather. Realizing that 30 years has passed(the formula may be better?), has anyone had any recent experience with it, and does it work any better?
    I still use it for labels and nuts.
     
  2. Aroneng

    Aroneng Supporting Member

    Sep 7, 2001
    Ft. Lauderdale, FL
    I used some about two years ago to repair a seam opening between the top and side close to the end pin. Still holding
     
  3. Marcus Johnson

    Marcus Johnson

    Nov 28, 2001
    Maui
    I'm not a luthier (nor do I play one on TV), but I've seen mostly resistance to the premixed stuff on the MIMF forum, except possibly in some light duty applications.
     
  4. mje

    mje

    Aug 1, 2002
    Southeast Michigan
    I used some many years ago in restoring an ancient beat-to-s*** school bass. Held together for at least a year, until I unloaded it. Today I wouldn't use it except in an emergency to close a seam when I couldn't get to my lutheir before a gig, or for a non-stressed part on an instrument. Maybe for gluing rubber bumpers on a bass.

    As I understand it, it's just hide glue with urea added, which both keeps it liquid and weakens it.
     
  5. matt macgown

    matt macgown Guest

    Dec 1, 2003
    Chattanooga, TN
    Does anyone use Elmer's wood glue (besides me?)
     
  6. Damon Rondeau

    Damon Rondeau Journeyman Clam Artist Supporting Member

    Nov 19, 2002
    Winnipeg, baby
    Matt, woodworkers all over the world use Elmer's wood glue or something like it. It works great, doesn't it? Glue always amazes me....

    Luthiers favour hide, though, because of its superior reversability qualities -- you can heat it up, steam it, whatever, and it will let go with zero damage. No other glue is anywhere near as good on that factor.

    Hide glue also has a very high retro-coolness factor and smells truly funky.
     
  7. matt macgown

    matt macgown Guest

    Dec 1, 2003
    Chattanooga, TN
    Thanks for that. I have never used hide glue and would like to try it. I am setting the plans to carve a front for my new 4/4 laminated bass (which already has a huge sound), and should get a handle on edge gluing that won't let go. This year's pet project. There'll be lots of questions - what wood, how many pieces, joining methods, etc. (I've made two fronts - one of cedar, one of fiberglass).
     
  8. Hope you don't use Elmers on any parts of a bass that you'd ever have to get un-glued again.......
     
  9. matt macgown

    matt macgown Guest

    Dec 1, 2003
    Chattanooga, TN
    I've repaired a several basses, but rest assured, I never got them until they were on their last legs! Elmer's is a bit dangerous on old fronts, but by using very thin blades, and several of them, I've been able to "pop" off tops and backs - some very delicate - to readjust after Elmers. Ignorance is bliss? But this activity would take me a whole day, maybe two, filled with fretfull anxiety, especially on delicate old fronts. I wonder how it would be for edge gluing front boards, in the long haul -but would rather learn the standard procedure.
     
  10. arnoldschnitzer

    arnoldschnitzer AES Fine Instruments

    Feb 16, 2002
    Brewster, NY, USA
    Only those who wish to endure the wrath of every decent luthier on the planet. Not only is elmer's difficult to undo, but it will not re-activate old animal-based glues the way hide or fish glue will (a good attribute when re-gluing open seams). And it dries to a rubbery consistency (compared to hide) which is bad for tone. If you had been a fly on the wall in my shop during any of the sessions I've endured opening up instruments glued with that crap, or cleaning out old white-glued repairs, you might have died just from the verbal invective launched at the perpetrators! Please don't do it. :rollno:
     
  11. matt macgown

    matt macgown Guest

    Dec 1, 2003
    Chattanooga, TN
    You betcha! Never again. Now, where do I get hold of this hide glue, or maybe at one of the on - line dealers, such as Metropolitan Music, or Quinn Violins? And is there some brand/or mix that I should get over all others? Mix your own? (I don't need to be incurring wrath, after 20 years of being wrathlessly divorced).
     
  12. Eric Rene Roy

    Eric Rene Roy Supporting Member

    Mar 19, 2002
    Mystic, CT
    President: Upton Bass String Instrument Co.
  13. matt macgown

    matt macgown Guest

    Dec 1, 2003
    Chattanooga, TN
    Thank you very much. I will get some of this glue. This is one of my "retirement" projects, and I plan to have some fun with it. Thank goodness for "Talkbass."
     
  14. Marcus Johnson

    Marcus Johnson

    Nov 28, 2001
    Maui
    Matt, when you get ready to try hide glue, make sure to check in to the Musical Instrument Makers Forum website (mimf.com). They have an archived library, which contains tone of info on preparing and using hide glue.
     
  15. arnoldschnitzer

    arnoldschnitzer AES Fine Instruments

    Feb 16, 2002
    Brewster, NY, USA
    You might want to give the liquid fish glue a try. It's sold by Kremer pigments in NYC. Thin it out a bit. Sorry for coming down on you so hard, but somebody had to do it... ;)
     
  16. matt macgown

    matt macgown Guest

    Dec 1, 2003
    Chattanooga, TN
    You bet. The best teachers often are not easy on you, and I'm not the least thin skinned. I've already talked with one distributor, and will look into the fish glue, which would never have ocurred to me.
     
  17. Matt, when you mentioned Elmers Glue in your post......If you're kind of new around TBDB,(I checked your profile and see that you're not all that new, but that you've only posted 17 times)
    What i'm getting at is how great this Forum is! The information is endless and in case you have'nt looked around, you might look under Basses at the begining of the posts and click on: The Talkbasses. Once in there, take a look at Arnold Schnitzer's work on his featured copy of one of Montagnana's basses. To have the opportunity to get feed-back and info. from a Master Luthier like Arnold is priceless. Not to mention the other Master Luthiers who contribute to this forum.
    Again, I only mention this so you can put a face on the guy who yells at ya!!
     
  18. matt macgown

    matt macgown Guest

    Dec 1, 2003
    Chattanooga, TN
    Relatively new to the forum, but not so new in general. Got that right.I've been looking at the luthier pages for about a year and a half now, trying to decide what to do with a little money and not much. The names have become familiar, but this is the first time I have ventured out of the bass closet, pretty much (been too wrapped up in antique microscopes and wasps/ bees/ ants). I feel elated that these people are on the forums and will actually talk to us, and have been switching from fiddle practice to computer all day here. I'll calm down. I tried some Chinese bases of various sorts over the last two years (including Shens) and began to get itchy fingers again! Laid off playing about ten years ago. I thought.
     
  19. matt macgown

    matt macgown Guest

    Dec 1, 2003
    Chattanooga, TN
    OK, let me ask one more question. Reversability of hide glue. Couple that with extreme heat and humidity of Mississippi, La, and does that have anything to do with why I've had trouble with necks coming unglued or "softening up," and therefore needing to be reglued? Remember that I am thinking of six hour drives ar 100 degrees and 99% RH, in hot vehicles with or without AC (more often without), Concert halls that only turn the AC on for performances, etc.

    I've had a few university basses come to me for fixin' up, and one pof the problems was simply, they came unglued. Hot storage rooms, etc.
    Is hide glue that sensitive, by any chance?

    I know that when I glue tiny insects to tiny points on insect pins, I have to use a different glue in the deep south than in New England. Most folks do. (There must be some other entomolgical bass players out there). Glue is interesting stuff!