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Double Bass French Bow Help

F

FreddyCG

Aug 18, 2009
17
1
#1
Hello, I've been playing upright for about 8 months now. I really enjoy the sound of an upright bass played arco, and classical music, I have a lot of friends who are really talented and beautiful players. I have been trying to learn to bow now for 8 months. I don't really have a teacher ( During the school year I take lessons from a jazz bassist but he doesn't really know how to teach).

Everyone says that you don't need to apply pressure to get a sound out of your bass, and that you shouldn't carry tension in your hand. But whenever I try to just lightly and with no pressure play, the bow just slides noiselessly over the string. And to get a sound I have to apply massive force. I know my bow hold is incorrect, and I am very frustrated. I am worried that I will ruin my technique permanently, ruin my wrist, and besides I hate sounding awful. Please, any advise on holding the bow, bowing properly, and pictures of correct technique would be great. 8 months have passed, and I still sound like I did one month into playing (arco, my pizzicato playing has improved greatly.) Thank you!
 
#2
It's not that you don't need pressure, but that the "pressure" comes in the form of weight rather than strength. If you completely relax your arm and drop the weight of the arm into the string through the bow, you will have more than enough pressure to sound the string.

The other variables are bow placement and bow speed. The placement, speed, and weight all need to be correct to produce the sound you want. All three will change depending on what note you are playing, and on what string.

That said, the bow should be able to pull some sound, if however soft, with just the weight of the stick. You may need more rosin, or perhaps completely new hair. You may also be working with strings (or a bass) which are very difficult to play.

You should invest in a qualified teacher. Bowing technique is fairly difficult to describe through text, and only an experienced player can tell you if your equipment is going to work. You could also invest in the Rabbath "Art of the Bow" DVD, which provides some great demonstrations.

Where are you located? Perhaps somebody can make teacher recommendations.
 
#4
Thank you guys. I agree on equipment, I realize I am playing a school rental bass, with a $90 bow, and pops rosin (sigh, broke teenagerness). I appreciate your answers, and will try to focus on weight not strength.

I go to an arts magnet school, Booker T. Washington HSPVA in Dallas, TX. We are located right next to the DSO, I know of plenty of teachers, I simply don't have much money, gas, and equipment, I play electric too, a lot of jazz stuff. But I agree, a teacher would be best. I think new hair wouldn't be a bad idea.

Lastly, I find the bow sliding for about an inch when I down bow (or up bow) before it produces a sound. Why is this? I don't know what to do about it. Thanks guys.
 
#5
FreddyCG said:
Thank you guys. I agree on equipment, I realize I am playing a school rental bass, with a $90 bow, and pops rosin (sigh, broke teenagerness). I appreciate your answers, and will try to focus on weight not strength.

I go to an arts magnet school, Booker T. Washington HSPVA in Dallas, TX. We are located right next to the DSO, I know of plenty of teachers, I simply don't have much money, gas, and equipment, I play electric too, a lot of jazz stuff. But I agree, a teacher would be best. I think new hair wouldn't be a bad idea.

Lastly, I find the bow sliding for about an inch when I down bow (or up bow) before it produces a sound. Why is this? I don't know what to do about it. Thanks guys.
Click to expand...
Do you have enough money for one lesson? Regular lessons would be ideal, but checking in with somebody once is still infinitely better than never.

A $90 bow would be a glasser, I assume? The hair that comes with those bows is synthetic and doesn't really work at all. If it's more than a year old, then it won't work at all. Pops is a fine rosin (many professionals use it), but it needs to be fresh.
 
#7
I recently started relearning playing with the bow and had similar experience. My teacher gave me these exercises which may help:

* Drop your hand, without the bow, on the strings several times. Get the sense of your weight, rather than muscling the strings. Then do the same thing with your bow. Just swing your arm onto the string with bow several time...like you are dropping it on the strings.

* Try to use your bow to make the A string vibrate laterally as much as possible. Just look at the string and work to get the most movement from the string. Notice as you go up and down bow that you can preserve that large string movement by by pushing and pulling laterally. When you push with your muscles, you tend to dampen the string and get a bad sound. Now apply this to all the other strings. You won't see them as well but you will feel and hear it.

* Relax your whole body. Often, when I muscling the bow, the rest of my body is tense too. This rigidity transmits to your bow and string too.

* Finally, try starting the string movement with a little pluck but don't make the string sound its full note. It should be very subtle...sound like a slight "tah". Its like tapping the bow...very subtle. Do this at both ends of the bow, up and down. This "tah" helps to get the string moving at the right speed and time.

* Look at yourself while bowing...either in a mirror or video. Is your bow moving straight across the string? Is your body relaxed and vertical? Is there a nice smooth line in both arms through to the fingers? (No sharp angles i the wrists.) Is your face soft, smiling? If you answer no to these, you will adversely affect the sound of the bowed instrument.

Try this everytime you pick up the bow. I found it to be very effective.
 
#8
basscleff94010 said:
* Drop your hand, without the bow, on the strings several times. Get the sense of your weight, rather than muscling the strings. Then do the same thing with your bow. Just swing your arm onto the string with bow several time...like you are dropping it on the strings.
Click to expand...
There is one key to this: the sound of the arm dropping into the fingerboard needs to be a fairly powerful "crack!" and should sit into the board without slipping off the side. If the sound is wimpy, either your arm isn't completely relaxed (think "dead meat") or the way you've positioned the bass in relation to your arm is not conducive to weight transfer. If the arm rolls off the E string edge, you may need to turn the bass until the arm sits completely.

This is an incredibly effective experiment. It lets you experience the sensation of dropping your weight into the strings (which is what bowing should feel like in the arm) and clearly demonstrates if the stance you've chosen in relation to the instrument is going to work.
 
#9
FreddyCG said:
Hello, I've been playing upright for about 8 months now. I really enjoy the sound of an upright bass played arco, and classical music, I have a lot of friends who are really talented and beautiful players. I have been trying to learn to bow now for 8 months. I don't really have a teacher ( During the school year I take lessons from a jazz bassist but he doesn't really know how to teach).

Everyone says that you don't need to apply pressure to get a sound out of your bass, and that you shouldn't carry tension in your hand. But whenever I try to just lightly and with no pressure play, the bow just slides noiselessly over the string. And to get a sound I have to apply massive force. I know my bow hold is incorrect, and I am very frustrated. I am worried that I will ruin my technique permanently, ruin my wrist, and besides I hate sounding awful. Please, any advise on holding the bow, bowing properly, and pictures of correct technique would be great. 8 months have passed, and I still sound like I did one month into playing (arco, my pizzicato playing has improved greatly.) Thank you!
Click to expand...

Hey you also shouldent keep your hair to tight that spreads it out giving it less grip if you keep it kind of lose it grips better.
 

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