Double Bass French bow - thumb placement

[PaulCannon]

Does that rubber grip make it easier on the thumb?

I think it's something to try for yourself. Some people hate it, and some people can't play without it. It's a personal preference.

If you have a bad habit of squeezing the bow, the rubber might ween you off of that. It might also make it worse, since the contact point is not completely solid.

The reason I use it is for control and contact. The rubber texture "sticks" to the thumb and fingers a little bit, and the larger diameter of the rubber-wrapped stick fits better in the hand. That means I never have the feeling the bow is slipping around, which in turn makes me feel less inclined to tightly grip down. I can have a more relaxed, looser bow hold and still feel like I have a solid contact and complete control.

 

[Anne Millington]

The Desimpelaere grip is what I was taught, and try to achieve. The grip is more like a bear paw, with fingers equally spaced and perpendicular to the stick. The thumb tip rests lightly in its most natural spot. All joints lightly flexed, not extended and stiff. Since all hands are different, you have to find what is comfortable and secure. The goal is to keep hand in a natural, relaxed shape so that you can play into your 80's without agony!

I use the rubber tubing as well.

 

[Paps]

Some very useful information here and something I think a lot of French Bow players are obsessed with.
My question concerns the tip of the thump opposing the 2nd finger.
I used to do this and it does create a natural pivot around which more or less pressure can be applied to the first finger. However, I read somewhere not to do this and to use the wrist as the pivot between the first and forth fingers. Sounds very technical but a useful exercise is to lift the 2nd and 3rd fingers from the stick and bow using just the 1st and 4th fingers. Then rest the other fingers on the stick. Their only function is to transmit arm weight to the bow/string. I find that when thumb and second finger are opposed, there is a tendency to squeeze them or push them towards each other through the stick. Any comments on this?
There are so many variations as can be seen from this thread, that it may be best to get a teacher and stick to their method at least to begin with.

 

[CaseyVancouver]

Perhaps not relevant here, but interesting, that no bass or cello player appears to ever place the pinky on top of the stick, like violin and viola do.

All string players do have the thumb and middle finger in the same location on the bow,
excepting the Italian bass hold.

The violin section often dictates bowing, and it trickles down to the basses, whether we like it or not.
Perhaps the concert masters have not thought of telling us how to hold our sticks yet
Or more likely, they have, and there was pushback lol

This photo is my violin hold, taken by my teacher from a violin lesson a couple of days ago.
We had a good discussion on the ‘what and why’ about this hold.
So it’s on my mind at the moment.

 

[Bruce Calin]

I can tell immediately if a student has had bass instruction from a school string teacher, usually a violinist, because they'll have their pinky on the top of the stick, often stuck straight out to the side. It's one of those habits that have to be dealt with in order to make much progress. IMO it's impossible to relax the hand with the pinky on top of the stick and will only lead to tension and possible injury. There are several possible variations of the French bow hold that work but not that one.

 

[David Potts]

A few observations about differences. The violin bow is very much lighter and longer and the frog is shallower. Bow weight in grams is much lighter and the stick is not as strong. Strings are much thinner and easier to control, requiring much greater delicacy. To play in the upper third of the hair requires the fingers to angle more towards the frog end and the hand to turn in a few degrees. All this lends towards the pinkie tip being being on top of the stick.

The French bass bow is shorter, heavier, with wider hair and deeper frog. To fully activate the thicker heavier strings requires greater weight and a stickier rosin. All this lends towards repositioning the fingers and thumb slightly differently, especially because of the deeper frog. The hand should still turn in a few degrees to engage the bending/straightening of the elbow in the bow stroke. A little more of each of the back three fingers is draped over the stick and the pad of the pinkie tip will more happily just hook over the stick and help control the relaxed bow direction change in each direction. I tend to promote two bow holds. One turns the hand in a few degrees by lifting the elbow slightly for on-the-string and semi-off-the-string strokes. The other flattens the hand parallel to the stick by dropping the elbow for spiccato and for carrying the bow more parallel during heavier strokes near or closer in than the balance point. Just a couple of degrees between the two makes a big difference in ease of bowing IMO (and for me !)

 

[Reiska]

Great stuff on this thread!!!