Fret Levelling - a Question Probably Asked a Thousand Times

[TeeSee]

I have done fret levelling before some years ago and had very good results, but for the life of me I can't remember exactly how I did it. There's plenty of YT videos out there but none address the question I want to ask.
Neck relief. how do you do the fret level? Do you slack off the truss rod before you start to level? In which case once you restring would not the frets be different heights when they're back in tension?
Or do you adjust the truss rod before you start the level, then remove the strings? But in that case unless the neck is completely flat wouldn't you end up with lower frets at the top and bottom of the neck?
To me it's like chicken and egg. It's doing my head in. Any tips please help me. Thank you.
Tony

 

[JC BASS 91]

Remove strings. Use a notched straight edge to get the neck as straight and flat as you can. Then use a fret rocker to check the frets across and down the neck. Then proceed with the process of leveling, crowning and polishing, if needed.

 

[TeeSee]

Remove strings. Use a notched straight edge to get the neck as straight and flat as you can. Then use a fret rocker to check the frets across and down the neck. Then proceed with the process of leveling, crowning and polishing, if needed.

Ahhh, well thereby hangs a tale.
I'm unable to used a notched rule as the one I have is for 30 and 34" necks. The neck is a 33.25". I have a 1m straight edge I could use, but thats not ideal as it will rest on the frets not the fretboard. I have a fret rocker as well but I got a feeling this being a Chinese guitar we're going to have the odd high/low fret.

 

[JC BASS 91]

Ahhh, well thereby hangs a tale.
I'm unable to used a notched rule as the one I have is for 30 and 34" necks. The neck is a 33.25". I have a 1m straight edge I could use, but thats not ideal as it will rest on the frets not the fretboard. I have a fret rocker as well but I got a feeling this being a Chinese guitar we're going to have the odd high/low fret.

I made my own. I got some decent aluminum yard 'sticks' from the hardware store, laid them out on the flat neck and marked the fret locations on it with a Sharpie. Then cut out the spots with a rotary tool. I think I paid $4 for said notched straight edge. I have one side cut for 34" scale and the other cut for 30" scale. Another is currently cut on one side for 25.5" scale for a guitar.

 

[TeeSee]

I made my own. I got some decent aluminum yard 'sticks' from the hardware store, laid them out on the flat neck and marked the fret locations on it with a Sharpie. Then cut out the spots with a rotary tool. I think I paid $4 for said notched straight edge. I have one side cut for 34" scale and the other cut for 30" scale. Another is currently cut on one side for 25.5" scale for a guitar.

That's a great idea, because I have a 32" scale guitar and this oddball, so I'm going to do one of these myself. Sheesh the US made notched rule cost me about $38 and a month delivery as it has to come all the way over here. I can probs make one for 1/4 or less of the price, I'm no good working with wood never have been, but when it comes to metal, 20 years of machine tool fitting in a previous life has set me up very nicely when working with steel, aluminium, brass etc. A cracking idea @JC BASS 91 thank you very much.
Anyway, I must have snagged an anomaly with the Chinese bass, as I've taken off the old strings adjusted the truss rod and put the1m rule across the frets to check the straightness, which all seems really good. The fret rocker has shown some very minor differences less than - I'd be guessing here - 0.5mm. We have a candidate for a very light level, then a customary crown and polish.
Thank you very much @JC BASS 91, you're a star.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

Is it a Rickenbacker bass? I don't know of another 33.25" scale bass. If so:

Amazon.com: Rickenbacker Bass Notched Straight Edge-Made In USA : Musical Instruments

Buy Rickenbacker Bass Notched Straight Edge-Made In USA: Tools - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

Or... just make one as described above. Try to find a hardware store ruler that seems really straight as measured against a decent quality level, or you own known good straightedge. I've made myself a 32" scale one, works fine.

 

[Faith Nicole]

I made my own. I got some decent aluminum yard 'sticks' from the hardware store, laid them out on the flat neck and marked the fret locations on it with a Sharpie. Then cut out the spots with a rotary tool. I think I paid $4 for said notched straight edge. I have one side cut for 34" scale and the other cut for 30" scale. Another is currently cut on one side for 25.5" scale for a guitar.

same. I saw no need to buy one when I could quickly make one.

 

[TeeSee]

Is it a Rickenbacker bass? I don't know of another 33.25" scale bass. If so:

Amazon.com: Rickenbacker Bass Notched Straight Edge-Made In USA : Musical Instruments

Buy Rickenbacker Bass Notched Straight Edge-Made In USA: Tools - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

Or... just make one as described above. Try to find a hardware store ruler that seems really straight as measured against a decent quality level, or you own known good straightedge. I've made myself a 32" scale one, works fine.

*ahem* that may be a solid schmaybe. I can neither confirm or deny. It does have 22 frets though.

 

[Gary_M]

A notched straight edge is mostly worthless when it comes to leveling frets. You’re not leveling the fretboard you’re leveling the frets, therefore that is your reference. Just put a straight edge on the top of the frets. Get it as flat as you can, Then proceed with leveling. There’s an alternate technique where you can put a slight amount of back bow, And then level. That may be a bit more advanced and you’re looking for however.

 

[Faith Nicole]

A notched straight edge is mostly worthless when it comes to leveling frets. You’re not leveling the fretboard you’re leveling the frets, therefore that is your reference. Just put a straight edge on the top of the frets. Get it as flat as you can, Then proceed with leveling. There’s an alternate technique where you can put a slight amount of back bow, And then level. That may be a bit more advanced and you’re looking for however.

depends on your goal. A notched straight edge give you a reference of where the neck itself lies, whether you want it perfectly straight or not, prior to leveling

 

[JC BASS 91]

That's a great idea, because I have a 32" scale guitar and this oddball, so I'm going to do one of these myself. Sheesh the US made notched rule cost me about $38 and a month delivery as it has to come all the way over here. I can probs make one for 1/4 or less of the price, I'm no good working with wood never have been, but when it comes to metal, 20 years of machine tool fitting in a previous life has set me up very nicely when working with steel, aluminium, brass etc. A cracking idea @JC BASS 91 thank you very much.
Anyway, I must have snagged an anomaly with the Chinese bass, as I've taken off the old strings adjusted the truss rod and put the1m rule across the frets to check the straightness, which all seems really good. The fret rocker has shown some very minor differences less than - I'd be guessing here - 0.5mm. We have a candidate for a very light level, then a customary crown and polish.
Thank you very much @JC BASS 91, you're a star.

It is my pleasure to help and assist folks when and where I can. I absolutely can't take credit for the idea, though. Dan Thompson, who has a YouTube channel, provided the idea to me originally via one of his videos about making your own tools for guitar building. So, I went to the local hardware store, found the aluminum rulers and verified their edges were properly straight and bought three of them. One quickly got turned into the 34"/30" notched straight edge. The 25.5" got done about two weeks ago. I do have a Ric and a Ric-shaped (and scaled), so I might do the other side of that for the 33.25" scale.

 

[T_Bone_TL]

If you have a bunch of blocks of the same height (or make them by slicing up some MDF or whatever) you could lay them between the frets and use a regular straightedge. No notches required... Depends how much use you have for a notched straightedge.

 

[Gary_M]

depends on your goal. A notched straight edge give you a reference of where the neck itself lies, whether you want it perfectly straight or not, prior to leveling

If your goal is to level the frets based on the "straightness" of the fretboard, you could end up with very little material remaining.

I agree that a notched straightedge can be a useful diagnostic tool to ascertain the overall condition of the neck... but if you have a hump in the board at the neck joint, for instance, you may shave down 'ol number 15 to a nub.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

As Gary M referred to above, some of us don't agree with the method of trying to get the fingerboard surface flat using a notched straightedge.

When I'm preparing a neck for leveling the frets, the important thing is to preload the truss rod. I first loosen it all the way, then tighten it up about halfway. Checking with a normal straightedge, I tighten the truss rod enough that the neck just begins to bend backward from wherever it was with the truss rod loose. That's the preloaded condition that I want the neck to be in when it's all finished and strung up on the bass.

The neck should end up pretty close to straight in that condition: truss rod partly tight, no string load. I don't really care that much if the fingerboard is perfectly flat. It's much more important to have the neck in that pre-loaded state while doing the leveling. If the fingerboard is far enough off of straight that the frets couldn't be leveled, then it's time to back up and fix that problem. Pull the frets and resurface the fingerboard, send it out for heat straightening, or whatever it needs.

The point is to not make the truss rod too tight or too loose, just to make the fingerboard flat, to make the leveling easier. Either of those will lead to stability problems. The truss rod needs to be pre-set into a range in which it can do its job.

Preload the truss rod and keep it like that through the whole process of leveling, crowning and polishing the frets. When you assemble the bass and string it up to tune, the neck should pull forward into a small amount of relief. If the neck is healthy, the relief will be about right. But you can fine tune it by tightening or loosening the truss rod a small amount.

That's the goal: When it's all strung up to tune and set up the way you want it, the truss rod should be approximately halfway tight. Not loose or maxed out.

Note: This is advanced level technique, and I realize that most of you who are trying fret leveling for the first time may not want to dig in this deep.

 

[TeeSee]

These are all sage words and I'll admit I'm a novice at this sort of thing and I would never have the audacity to even call myself a luthier's sock but anyway I forged ahead with Plan 'A' before I saw the other comments on here. I'm sure for me it's "close enough for government work" I don't actually know where I even picked up that phrase, must've been a book I read once.
Anyway here's a few pics. Tweaked up the truss rod to flat and eyeballed the straightness with a 1m rule, Sharpie method, then levelling beam, used the Music Nomad fret edge file, Baroque crowning file some steel wool and these fret erasers before using my "dremel" with a teeny polishing mop with some brown soap. It's not come out too bad, Sadly I won't be able to try it yet as still waiting for my new PG to arrive before I can even wire it up, before I can put the new strings on, before I can do a proper setup. It's not perfect but frets feel nice and smooth so will see in a week's time how it all panned out. Thank you all for your kind replies and even if I didn't use them this time around, rest assured they've now gone in my little book for future reference.
Again,thanks all.

 

[Engle]

Is it a Rickenbacker bass? I don't know of another 33.25" scale bass. If so:

Amazon.com: Rickenbacker Bass Notched Straight Edge-Made In USA : Musical Instruments

Buy Rickenbacker Bass Notched Straight Edge-Made In USA: Tools - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

Or... just make one as described above. Try to find a hardware store ruler that seems really straight as measured against a decent quality level, or you own known good straightedge. I've made myself a 32" scale one, works fine.

The Greco Tbirds are 33.25"

 

[sunbeast]

The Greco Tbirds are 33.25"

A lot of vintage "lawsuit" era Japanese basses were as well- I had a few 70s Ibanez/Memphis/etc Ps and Js with 33.25" scales

 

[RSBBass]

One aspect were a notched straight edge can be of help is determining how much the changes with string tension. The more a neck moves, the harder it is to get a good level. At some point it makes sense to use a neck jig.

 

[Tassieviking]

I'm sure for me it's "close enough for government work" I don't actually know where I even picked up that phrase, must've been a book I read once.

When I do it I say "You would never notice it on the back of a galloping horse"

 

[Turnaround]

One aspect were a notched straight edge can be of help is determining how much the changes with string tension.

You don't need a notched straightedge for that - the top of the frets are a good reference point for that, and it's the plane of the fret tops that's the defining factor in playability.