Fret slots saw choice

[Silviomottolese]

Hi everybody! I'm at my first build and I'm not sure about the saw to buy for making the fret slots. I can not try it because I have to buy it from the web, so I ask you advices.
The tang width of the frets I have is 0,42 millimeters and I found this japanese saw wich has a "setting" of 0,45 millimeters. This is the link: Invalid Link Removed
Would it be good?
Is the "setting" the actual width of the cut?
Would you advice another saw?

Thanks for the answers!

 

[mapleglo]

I use the StewMac Japanese fret saw:

Invalid Link Removed

 

[Means2nEnd]

Me2 it rules

 

[Bruce Johnson]

A saw with a 0,45mm set width is too narrow for fret slots. Any saw will actually cut a slot that is slightly wider than its set width. That saw would probably cut a slot of about 0,48mm in most woods.

Most standard frets are recommended to be installed in slots 0.022"-0.023" wide in fairly hard woods. That converts to 0,55mm-0,58mm in metric.

The width of the tang on the frets may be only 0,42mm (0.017"), but you have to allow for the barbs. If you try to hammer or press the frets into a 0,45mm-0,48mm slot, it will take too much force and may distort and bend the neck.

I don't know of any standard saws that have a set width of 0,55mm-0,56mm. The special Fret Slotting Saws from companies like Stew-Mac and LMI are custom made to have that set width.

 

[b3e]

Bruce is right, I'm using that exact saw in my builds, its a great and super sharp tool, but the kerf is just 0.45mm (0.0177"), which is really tight. I mage some tests with using it for fretting. I switched to a PAX fret saw with a kerf of 0.53mm (0.021"). It's working much better. It's still little less than what Bruce suggests, but I didn't find anything closer to the spec.

The 0.0177" kerf will probably make your frets to push to hard to the sides and you may end up with a back bow on your neck.

 

[bobdabilder]

I believe this is the saw i bought to do frets. Invalid Link Removed

 

[Arie X]

i use the SM saw as well. ime you generally want to go .002 max wider then tang width.

if you really want to wallow in non-value added labor, get a saw tooth setting tool and bend your teeth one at a time to get the kerf you want.

like B3e says though, too narrow a slot and you will get a crash course in compression fretting.

 

[TundraMan]

When I saw slots by hand I use this saw: Invalid Link Removed

It cuts a .023 slot.

 

[T_Bone_TL]

if you really want to wallow in non-value added labor, get a saw tooth setting tool and bend your teeth one at a time to get the kerf you want.

With the appropriate tool (I think mine cost $10, the trick is to not pay "antique" prices for them when buying used), this really takes very little time at all, and is all part of simply sharpening your saws rather than throwing them away and buying a new (hopefully) sharp one when they get dull.

 

[Arie X]

With the appropriate tool (I think mine cost $10, the trick is to not pay "antique" prices for them when buying used), this really takes very little time at all, and is all part of simply sharpening your saws rather than throwing them away and buying a new (hopefully) sharp one when they get dull.

true. to do it right takes time and it can work well for Western pattern saws where the teeth aren't through hardened. not so do-able on authentic Japanese saws, like Tajima's for example. They rely on the sides of the saw for guidance and the teeth are full hard with no offsets.

 

[Silviomottolese]

Ok thanks for the answers... and Bruce Johnson you dispelled my doubts!

 

[Means2nEnd]

Never had an issue with the Japanese saw from SM. This is listed under the saw...

TIP: The blade features extremely sharp teeth, with precise .023" kerf to match our fretwire. Because it cuts faster than a standard fret saw, it must be held perpendicular to the fretboard. If not, you can quickly cut a wider slot than you expect. We recommend our Fret Slotting Miter Box for keeping the saw in proper alignment.

Just wondered Bruce if you saw something about the SM saw that was different than what I am seeing? Anyway I have used the SM saw for maybe about the last 20-25 fretboards with zero issues. but I am always looking for a good excuse to buy another tool. Is there a saw you like Bruce right out da box?

 

[T_Bone_TL]

Never had an issue with the Japanese saw from SM. This is listed under the saw...

TIP: The blade features extremely sharp teeth, with precise .023" kerf to match our fretwire. Because it cuts faster than a standard fret saw, it must be held perpendicular to the fretboard. If not, you can quickly cut a wider slot than you expect. We recommend our Fret Slotting Miter Box for keeping the saw in proper alignment.

Just wondered Bruce if you saw something about the SM saw that was different than what I am seeing? Anyway I have used the SM saw for maybe about the last 20-25 fretboards with zero issues. but I am always looking for a good excuse to buy another tool. Is there a saw you like Bruce right out da box?

IIRC Bruce uses a circular slotting saw (possibly custom-ground) in a horizontal mill, or at least that type of sawblade (but he's certainly got the mill to go with it.) Lemme look for it. Here's a post which has an incidental picture, #57 so it's not being used in the mill. Here it is getting fancy with fanned frets: Winter Build Off Fanned Fret, Light Wave Ah, the blade is not only custom-ground (and then set), it's also from Stew-Mac: #33

 

[Bruce Johnson]

I have several hand-powered fret slotting saws. The Stew-Mac on is their standard classic model, not the newer Japanese slotting saw. I bought it back around 1992, so it's practically an antique now. Stew-Mac has further developed and upgraded their fretsaws and slotting fixtures over the years. I also have one of the LMII slotting saws, which I bought sometime in the mid-1990's.

And I have several mini-hacksaws, the ones that use the little 6" blades. When you measure them, those little hacksaw blades vary a lot from one to the next in set width. With some selection and measuring, and some stoning and vise-crushing, I have several of those little saws labeled which will cut other size slots, like 0.020", 0.028" and 0.030". There are times when I want to cut under or over sized slots.

Which do I like best? Well, as T_Bone referred to, about 20 years ago I built my own custom fret slotting saw machine. It uses the round Stew-Mac blades, powered by a motor. It indexes accurately to the positions of any scale length I want, and the sawing head follows the curve of the fingerboard radius. A few years back, I modified it further to be able to cut fanned fret slots.

So, for obvious reasons, I've been using that machine to cut almost all of my fret slots for the last 20 years. I rarely have a need to hand cut a slot. I mostly use the hand saws to check the depth of the slots. Sometimes, when cutting hard fingerboards like cocobolo, the head of the machine will push up a little bit as it goes across, not cutting the slot to the full depth. Taking a second pass through the slot isn't good, because it could widen the slot.

When that happens, back on the bench, I use the Stew-Mac and/or LMII saws to run through the slots by hand, to clean them out and make sure they are are at the full depth. Both of those saws have the plexiglass depth stop on the side. For whatever reason, the old Stew-Mac saw cuts slightly narrower than the LMII saw. Probably just wear. I usually take a swipe first with the Stew-Mac saw, then a finish with the LMII saw.

The round Stew-Mac slotting blades are very good. I have two of them which I swap back and forth as they get dull. I resharpen them and reset the teeth about once a year. I set them right to 0.023". On another forum, I did a little tutorial on how to sharpen and reset the teeth on one of these blades. It's not real hard to do.

 

[Means2nEnd]

Thank you Bruce for all the amazing research and development you share with us. I would be still carving match box derby cars at best without you Uncle B HA!