Fretboard Material Ideas

[VegasCustom]

Is it theoretically possible to combine two woods for a fretboard by laminating them on top of each other to gain a little bit of tone from both of them? I dont want to do the thing where you just put them side by side so individual strings get one or the other.

 

[smart51]

You can glue together any wood you like. I'm not sure they would impart a particular tone but the gluing up would work. If I were to do it, I'd use 3 pieces and have the centre one a contrasting colour.

 

[VegasCustom]

You can glue together any wood you like. I'm not sure they would impart a particular tone but the gluing up would work. If I were to do it, I'd use 3 pieces and have the centre one a contrasting colour.

Really only interested if it can somehow combine two tones. Im not educated on tone woods or wood in general so its difficult for me to answer these basic questions.... That being said, I do have a piece of purple heart laying around... and the idea of a purple heart center flanked by maple fretboard... not bad...

 

[VegasCustom]

Really only interested if it can somehow combine two tones. Im not educated on tone woods or wood in general so its difficult for me to answer these basic questions.... That being said, I do have a piece of purple heart laying around... and the idea of a purple heart center flanked by maple fretboard... not bad...

Might also cause some confusion for the player tho..

 

[T_Bone_TL]

99% of "tone associated with wood" is entirely between the ears. Not in, between.

Sure, laminate up two woods, believe, and claim to hear the results. You probably will perceive what you believe in.

Whether anybody (including you) could tell in a double-blind test...that's where belief and science part ways.

Given you're talking a fretboard, not a fingerboard, not much difference at all in what the strings touch where it matters.

 

[VegasCustom]

99% of "tone associated with wood" is entirely between the ears. Not in, between.

Sure, laminate up two woods, believe, and claim to hear the results. You probably will perceive what you believe in.

Whether anybody (including you) could tell in a double-blind test...that's where belief and science part ways.

Given you're talking a fretboard, not a fingerboard, not much difference at all in what the strings touch where it matters.

Sure, a lot has to be in my head. fingerboard and fretboard distinction might be unnecessary, im doing it like Leeland Sklar and using small frets so the strings touch the wood. Im new so I could be wrong, but wouldn't that have a greater affect?

 

[Beej]

Sure, a lot has to be in my head. fingerboard and fretboard distinction might be unnecessary, im doing it like Leeland Sklar and using small frets so the strings touch the wood. Im new so I could be wrong, but wouldn't that have a greater affect?

Maybe... but what is the effect we're looking for? And what is the thing that is having a greater effect? The wood it's embedded in, the dryness of the wood, the alloy used in the fret itself? The glue used to set the fret? The process used to set the fret? I'm not being a jerk, it's just that instruments are complex systems of interacting parts and it's difficult to tease out the impact of one component of a system separate from the system itself.

But then again I can sit here asking questions like Socrates all day.

 

[VegasCustom]

Maybe... but what is the effect we're looking for? And what is the thing that is having a greater effect? The wood it's embedded in, the dryness of the wood, the alloy used in the fret itself? The glue used to set the fret? The process used to set the fret? I'm not being a jerk, it's just that instruments are complex systems of interacting parts and it's difficult to tease out the impact of one component of a system separate from the system itself.

But then again I can sit here asking questions like Socrates all day.

The not knowing where to start makes it an interesting problem in my mind. I want to really think out the issue and find a way to study this so the world can have definitive answers.. or something close to it.

 

[Beej]

The not knowing where to start makes it an interesting problem in my mind. I want to really think out the issue and find a way to study this so the world can have definitive answers.. or something close to it.

The golden age of tonewood debates was around 10 years ago. Nowadays most of us who build are so tired of it that you don't get as much enthusiasm in the argument camps. I probably used to get too pedantic about it, and I'm a bit of a purist as I've done a lot of research in psychology in my day job so I know enough to be dangerous with regard to experimental design.

An interesting rabbit hole to go down in this area is not with experiments in tonewood at all, it's to learn about and understand 'cognitive bias'. 'Tone' is a highly subjective term. It's like 'beauty'. Not easy to operationally define, and is so laden with culturally-entrenched personal meaning that it's near impossible to find a shared definition. Most of the time (outside of the LC) when people are talking about tonewood and how wood impacts the tone, they are swimming in their own cognitive biases. I'm also people, and I'm also just as subject to the whims of my cognitions, even if I do have some meta-awareness from training and experience.

 

[gln1955]

The not knowing where to start makes it an interesting problem in my mind. I want to really think out the issue and find a way to study this so the world can have definitive answers.. or something close to it.

Have fun doing whatever you want, but there are no definitive answers to be had. Too many variables and the endpoint is totally subjective.

 

[VegasCustom]

The golden age of tonewood debates was around 10 years ago. Nowadays most of us who build are so tired of it that you don't get as much enthusiasm in the argument camps. I probably used to get too pedantic about it, and I'm a bit of a purist as I've done a lot of research in psychology in my day job so I know enough to be dangerous with regard to experimental design.

An interesting rabbit hole to go down in this area is not with experiments in tonewood at all, it's to learn about and understand 'cognitive bias'. 'Tone' is a highly subjective term. It's like 'beauty'. Not easy to operationally define, and is so laden with culturally-entrenched personal meaning that it's near impossible to find a shared definition. Most of the time (outside of the LC) when people are talking about tonewood and how wood impacts the tone, they are swimming in their own cognitive biases. I'm also people, and I'm also just as subject to the whims of my cognitions, even if I do have some meta-awareness from training and experience.

fair. And completely agree. I've actually made my living mostly through personal investing so cognitive bias is something im somewhat familiar with.. not on a formal education standpoint tho.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

The choice of fingerboard wood can affect the sound of a bass in two ways: structural stiffness and the hardness of the surface.

The overall stiffness of the neck plays a big part in the sound of an electric bass. By stiffness, I mean how much the neck bends forward when the strings are pulled up to full tension. A very stiff neck barely moves at all. A soft (the opposite of stiff) neck bends forward significantly as you crank the strings up to tension.

How does this affect the sound? Quick summary: Making the neck stiffer (along with the neck/body joint) mostly affects the lows and sub-lows. It doesn't really make the low end much louder, like raising the bottom end of the EQ curve. It makes the low notes clearer, less mushy and muddy. You can hear the fundamentals better, they are cleaner. And you can hear the sub-fundamentals down much lower. Like the sound of the bottom keys on a grand piano. The low notes are clean and defined. That's what stiffening the neck does. A soft neck does the opposite. The low notes are more mushy and poorly defined. Not necessarily unappealing, but different.

The mechanical and physical reasons why this happens is a long discussion that I won't go into here.

Anyway, the bass neck is a beam made up of the main neck wood (solid or laminated), the truss rod, any internal reinforcements and....the fingerboard. The fingerboard is the top surface of the beam structure, and it plays a part in the overall stiffness when bending the beam. A soft squishy piece of wood will add less stiffness. A dense, hard piece of wood will add more stiffness. Note that when the neck is bending under string load, the fingerboard is in compression. The compression stiffness of the fingerboard is what matters. And compression stiffness usually almost directly corresponds with density and weight. A heavier board takes more pounds to compress.

The fingerboard is only one part of the beam formula. If the neck is already very stiff in design; dense wood, multi-lam, heavy truss rod, carbon fiber reinforcement; then the stiffness of the fingerboard won't matter much. The choice of fingerboard woods won't make much difference in the sound. Because the neck is already stiff.

If the neck by itself is soft and springy, then adding a stiff fingerboard can stiffen up the neck overall and make a noticeable difference in the sound. That's why a skinny Fender neck will sound different with a rosewood fingerboard and an ebony fingerboard. A Fender with an ebony board will usually have low end that is clearer and cleaner. Of course, there are other variables too, but that's what you can generally expect from a dense fingerboard on fairly soft neck.

That's the structural stiffness part of it.

The other factor is the hardness of the surface. This mostly applies on fretless fingerboards. I call it the Zip effect. If the surface of the fingerboard is much harder, by being coated with polyester or epoxy, you'll hear more of a Zipping sound when you slide on notes. A high frequency superbuzz as you slide. Zipping was a main part of Jaco's sound. It adds an emphasis to fast crazy fretless work.

Note that Zip is different from Mwah. Zip is higher frequency and mostly happens when you are moving. Mwah is more in the mid-high range and can happen when stationary or sliding. Mwah is very dependent on how hard you pluck (and the action height). Zip happens almost all the time, no matter how hard you pluck. But it's louder when you slide. On a hard surface.

An ebony fingerboard that has been polished and coated only with a penetrating sealer will not make as much Zip. Coating it with polyester, hard epoxy or CA glue will give it more Zip. Many fretless players want that hard coating for that reason.

Most major major manufacturers put hard coats (usually polyester) on their fretless fingerboards of softer woods. Think Fender and Rickenbacker fretlesses with maple and rosewood fingerboards. They are hard coated.

Some fretless players will say they like the sound of a maple or rosewood fingerboard fretless bass more than ebony. It's usually because they like the Zip that comes from the hard coating. Not as much because of the bottom end clarity from the stiffness.

On a fretted bass, there isn't much Zip effect. Only if the frets are low and you slam the strings down hard, smacking the fingerboard between the frets. There might be a slight high frequency Zip-Click.

 

[Beej]

"High Frequency Zip-Click" sounds like an excellent product descriptor.

 

[ardgedee]

Making the neck stiffer (along with the neck/body joint) mostly affects the lows and sub-lows. It doesn't really make the low end much louder, like raising the bottom end of the EQ curve. It makes the low notes clearer, less mushy and muddy. You can hear the fundamentals better, they are cleaner. And you can hear the sub-fundamentals down much lower. Like the sound of the bottom keys on a grand piano. The low notes are clean and defined. That's what stiffening the neck does. A soft neck does the opposite. The low notes are more mushy and poorly defined. Not necessarily unappealing, but different.

You have me wondering whether three-piece single-wood necks (that both you and @Freekmagnet have demonstrated elsewhere) are stiffer than one-piece necks of the same material, or whether it only affect the straightness.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

You have me wondering whether three-piece single-wood necks (that both you and @Freekmagnet have demonstrated elsewhere) are stiffer than one-piece necks of the same material, or whether it only affect the straightness.

If all else is equal (wood, dimensions, etc.), a three-piece laminated neck is only a small amount stiffer than a one piece neck. I've never set up a test rig and measured it, but it's probably in the range of 5% stiffer.

The main reason for the multi-piece V-lamination construction is stability, not stiffness. They are two different things.

 

[zontar]

If it made any difference it likely wouldn't be noticeable tone wise--at least to most of us
But it could impact appearance, feel and stability--mostly covered above.
Or in other words it may not be worth the effort, unless you like it.