Fretboard memorization issues

[JW56789]

Before anything else, THANK YOU for your service. I'm a big fan of jarheads, retired or still on active duty.

There's any number of ways to approach this, but since you're playing a five-string, and it's fuzzy above the fifth fret: OK, remember it all 'starts over' at the 12th fret, so we've narrowed it down quite a bit.

I came to a five-string from a earlier life as a piano player. On a five, you can play two octaves across the neck, all the notes in a row as I was used to on keyboards. Since you're with a teacher, I'll assume you've got a major scale fingering down cold.

So how I approached it was to cinch in my mind what each fret / note was along the B-string. Then I'd play a double octave major scale across the fingerboard. So at the 6th fret, the scale would lay out

F-G-A-Bflat-C-D-E-F-G-A-Bflat-C-D-E-F across all five strings from the B to the G. Repeat this at each fret along the B-string, and before long it will set up in your mind where you are. And of course it all starts over at the 12th fret, without having to negotiate open strings.

After a while, reverse it going 'downhill' from the G to the B. Or one octave along the inner strings. Do it enough, and the light will come on.

Semper Fi !

 

[ba55i5t]

Put a capo on the 5th fret. You now have EADGC. Now play tunes as if you only had a four string bass. It'll take you up the neck quite quickly and demystify that 5-11 area.

 

[pcake]

get a cheap bass neck and put stick on letters on each fret, then watch it as you play. or do this with a cheap used bass.

heck, you could probably put the stick on letters and put them on your bass, but they might leave a residue when you take them off.

 

[Sav'nBass]

Also ... get some kind of rhythm app .. drum loops.. something.. There are a bunch of free apps.. Scott's Bass Lessons has one on the site that is pretty decent..

 

[LBS-bass]

I think it is easiest to think in intervals instead of "memorizing" the fretboard.

Also, practicing all 24 scales is probably helpful.

This is why I like the octaves approach. I have never had to memorize the fretboard. I can always find an octave to any note I know on the E and A strings because I know that pattern. Those notes were the ones I memorized. From there, the other notes really memorized themselves, and that came with experience as I played, not memorization work.

 

[Mushroo]

Songs are the key to unlocking the fretboard. Learn lots of songs: songs where the bassist plays low on the fretboard, songs where the bassist plays in the middle of the fretboard, and songs where the bassist plays high on the fretboard. Watch YouTube videos of experienced pros and study how they use the whole neck. An experienced player might use one "position" of the neck for the verse, and another position for the chorus, for example.

I was lucky when I was starting out. Peter Hook was one of my favorite bassists. Due to my inexperience, I didn't know it was "unusual" to play that high on the neck. Therefore I was fortunate enough to learn the entire fretboard right from the start. For example, "Ceremony" was one of the first songs I ever learned. It's in the key of C, so "Ceremony" became my "reference point" for playing songs in C high on the neck. Then I learned some other song high on the neck in the key of E, and that song became my reference for playing songs in E, and so forth.

 

[mambo4]

Be a work in progress as a bass player .. and be cool with that.. and know that you have to do the work.

Good advice at any stage. Lots of good advice in this thread.
There's a distinction to make between learning the neck as in knowing the names of the notes at each fret/string, vs learning the neck as a musical space : the sounds and intervals and relationships between each fret/string.

Here's how I memorized the note names: I just memorized the "dots". On a standard neck the fret markers denote:
BEADG (open)
DGCFBb (3RD)
EADGC (5TH)
BEADG(7TH)
C#F#BEA(9th)
BEADG(12th)

And of course it all starts over at 12th.
With the "dots" memorized I was able to find the inbetweem notes quickly easily enough. Over time the rest became just as instinctive as the dots.

Ymmv

 

[DanGroove]

Here’s an exercise I do every day. Do it to a metronome play each note on the beat. Accelerate over time as you get better. You may have to start pretty slow. Also, at first you may not be able to do it in time as you figure out where the notes are.

Pick a note at random to start on.

Play Every instance of that on the neck saying the note name out loud as you do. Whether you refer to a chart or suss it out yourself doesn’t matter. First bottom up, then top down.

ex:

C: 8th fret E string, 20th fret E string, 3rd fret A string, 15th fret A string, 10th fret D string, 5th fret G string, 17th fret G string

now repeat through process going through the cycle of 4th or 5th’s. In case you don’t know the cycle here it is and is well worth committing to memory.

4th B E A D G C F Bb Eb Ab Db Gb B
5th F C G D A E B Gb Db Ab Eb Bb F

notice the cycle of 5th is the cycle of 4ths backwards. I usually just go with the 4ths.

Next do the same thing but top down.
C: G string 17th fret, G string 5th fret, D string 10th fret, A string 15th fret, A string 3rd fret, E string 20th fret, E string, 8th fret

go through the cycle again.

this may take you 15-20 minutes at first. Once you get to where you can do it at 100bpm it takes less than 3 minutes.

 

[GastonD]

A lot of excellent info and advice here already, so I will offer a bit different thing, i.e. full instructional methods, sold by professional music educators I am not affiliated with.
Videos:
1. Todd Johnson's "Bass Fundamentals Method" series;
2. Dana Rasch's "Visual Guide Tones" series.

The former is bass specific and covers scales and arpeggios done in such a way to enable the fretboard familiarization. The latter is guitar based, but readily applicable to bass (and worked amazingly well for me, on the 5-string). The first three volumes deal with pentatonic scales, IN DEPTH, and they probably suffice for the purpose stated by the OP.

Books:
1. Garry Willis' "Fingerboard Harmony for Bass" (my hands down favorite in this regard, especially since it addresses extended range instruments as well);
2. Joe Hubbard's "Chord Tone Sudoku" and "Chord Tone Mastery for Electric Bass" (both feature an original and very well thought out method for learning the fretboard in a musically meaningful manner)
3. Phil Mann's "Chord Tone Concepts" (vol. 1 covers triads, vol. 2 7th chords, but could be in a similar way that OP's instructor already has him doing).

Hope this helps!

 

[Scottgun]

There is no shortcut. You just have to read lots and lots and force yourself to play what you read above the 5th fret.

I'll recommend The Latin Bass Book by Oscar Stagnaro. By the end of it you will be a reading/fretboard fiend.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

You know 1-5, work on 6-7 next, 8-9, 10-11.

 

[HolmeBass]

I am not a fan of rote memorization, and definitely not a fan of not knowing. And guessing is completely unproductive.

I think the way to do it is to figure out the name of any note in question. A good way to practice that is to figure out the names of all of the notes you play in the songs you already know, and in any new song you learn by ear or by tab.

Along with all of the great advice for transferring knowledge of notes from open through 5th fret to adjacent strings, the use of octaves, and the knowledge of the fretboard repeating (albeit an octave higher) from the 12th fret up, use the most basic knowledge: each note that isn’t an accidental: that is, A, B, C, D, etc through G, is separated by a whole step (two frets) EXCEPT for between B and C, and also between E and F. Those notes are separated by only a half step - one fret. They are also, sensibly, the white keys on the piano without a black key between them. Using all of this knowledge together you can figure out the name of any note on the fingerboard.

I would just continually figure out the names of notes in songs you already know, and in songs you are learning. A good exercise, if you use tabs, is to write in each note’s name on your tabs.

It gets tricky for the “black key” notes, the ones with 2 possible names, like C#/Db, or F#/Gb. There rules that let you know which name is correct depend on the key you are in, but for now you can let that slide and just name those notes with both. Keep processing/counting by using the methods detailed in this thread to figure out note names until you can figure out any note’s name in about 2 or 3 seconds.

So rather than memorizing the fingerboard, you memorize the strategies to figure out the name of any note. If you keep figuring out the names of notes you are using you will get better and faster at figuring out any given note’s name.

As you solidify your knowledge of how to figure out any note’s name, you will also begin to learn the fingerboard, as opposed to memorizing it.

Once you have good handle on being able to figure out any note’s name, then you can start learning the major scale, in all keys, and you will learn the rules for which name to call the accidentals- whether it’s A# or Bb, etc. And you will learn why some more escoteric things can happen, like Cb or E#. (As in “why isn’t Cb just B?)

But for the next month or two just practice figuring out the name of any given note, so you can be like: eighth fret, E string; that is a C. Ninth fret, B string; that is a G#/Ab. If you figure out the name within 2 or 3 seconds, start cracking open the major scale.

Good luck! Be diligent, but also be patient with yourself. Don’t guess!! Figure it out. Work that brain muscle to make it strong, it will pay off for sure.

 

[dpaul]

My teacher me on two strings for the circle of fifths/fourths at the moment.

For the record, there is no ‘circle of fifth/fourths’, it’s only the circle of fifths. Sharp keys are going up a fifth, flat keys are going down a fifth. Just remember, most of the notes on your bass are repeated 5 frets higher, and one string lower. The A note on the 2nd fret of your first string is the same A note 7th fret 2nd string, 12th fret 3rd string, 17th fret 4th string. The 5 fret rule can help you unlock most of your fretboard. Good luck

 

[Playbyear]

I have never learned music theory. I have no idea what notes I’m playing and what the notes are on the fretboard. Just playing by ear and by patterns.

I’ve been playing bass (only) for 40 years. I’m just starting now on scales and leaning the notes on the fretboard. It slow going, singing the notes as I play scales. I figure it might be good to find out what the heck I’m actually doing...

 

[dbsfgyd1]

I've been playing bass since I was 17, though I took a sizable break while serving an enlistment in the USMC between 2002-2006.

Tried to pick up where I left off when I go out of the Corps, but ended up just noodling around and playing simple songs just to make me happy--I love playing music, so even the small things like playing a simple tune or riff can make me very happy--and didn't try to get my chops back.

Eventually (in my case, at least) I had a kid and had to take about three more years off from playing to help raise her and start a new job across the country from where we were living when she was born.

Finally got back into playing and started taking lessons with an amazing instructor--the lesson plans are easy to follow, they push me just enough to be challenging, but not too much to be discouraging, and the mix of rote memorization and a fun approach to mechanics have made these lessons a real pleasure.

But I've hit a mental roadblock, it seems.

I can't memorize many of the notes past the 5th fret. I know at the 12th it's the same as the open string, but getting from 5th fret to 11th fret is holding me back as we're working on the circle of fifths/fourths, and trying to start incorporating that into my playing, and a key to doing that well is knowing the fretboard.

Anyone have any suggestions for getting past this bump in the road? I practice about 1-1 1/2 hours a day. I've made fretboard charts and marked them up with the notes, but again, I get turned around a bit past the 5th fret.

Oh, I also play a 5-string, tuned BEADG. So yeah I know that extra string adds another level of complexity, but for what I want to play after I get these theory basics down, a 5-banger is very useful.

Thanks in advance!

First off, thank you for your service. Have two sons in the Marines, I can truly appreciate it.
My youngest son is in the 3rd MAW band as a bassist. We’re you in the band, or another MOS. I understand they are always looking for players. So are the other branches, including reserves.

 

[swink]

Here's how I memorized the note names: I just memorized the "dots". On a standard neck the fret markers denote:
BEADG (open)
DGCFBb (3RD)
EADGC (5TH)
BEADG(7TH)
C#F#BEA(9th)
BEADG(12th)

I'dd like to see your bass one day

 

[JoeWPgh]

Way back in the day, when I first started, I was kind of like the OP. I would noodle around, and replay the things I had figured out. But, I taped together some paper and drew a large picture of the fingerboard, and it's notes. While I noodled around, I'd keep my eye on my drawing, so I knew what note I was playing. It wasn't long until I knew where every E, C# and the rest of them were.

 

[Admiral Thrawn]

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you guys.

I've read all the posts and I appreciate all the info you have provided.

I'll be trying to incorporate as much of what you have posted into my practice routine as possible.

Talked with my instructor yesterday (normal lesson day) and we hit upon a few things that are also barrier to entry, namely personality traits, such as me being incredibly hard and demanding of myself. We came to the conclusion that I need to incorporate more fun exercises into my practice routine so practice doesn't feel like a chore.

They also reassured me that memorizing the fretboard won't happen overnight, and that for them, it took nearly a year to be confident and proficient enough to play with other musicians. I also had an unreasonable expectation of how long it would take for me to get it, so getting that timeline in my head out of the way is already a huge load lifted.

Even though my entire lesson time was devoted to helping me sort out my issues and being stuck, it was very productive in that I left the lesson feeling more in control and less like a failure.

Thanks again guys, I really appreciate you all taking the time out of your day to respond to my post and provide meaningful and insightful solutions to help me get to where I want to go.