All the above advice is good. Let me add another thing to try. Play the riffs/songs you like. Be aware of what notes they are. Then play those same riffs/songs up an octave, and be aware of what notes and frets they are.
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Fretboard memorization issues
- Thread starter Admiral Thrawn
- Start date
In the .general instruction page look up the getting started string. Some good information there.
Like thinking in A,B,C's and 1,2,3's. Post number 4 in that string will get you started.
Good luck.
Like thinking in A,B,C's and 1,2,3's. Post number 4 in that string will get you started.
Good luck.
I feel you - I've been playing over 35 years (with a 5-6 year break in the middle) and still don't know a lot of the notes on the fretboard! I can play without knowing them, so it's hard for me to put in the effort to learn them. I'm going to try and say them out loud - I was doing that for a little bit. I was also playing things and then playing them in a different octave, trying to be mindful of the actual notes rather than the shapes.
I think I saw one response there about not being judgmental of yourself when you don't get it right, and I think that's good advice. It will just deepen your awareness of music which I think is a good thing!
The more different ways you learn the material the better IMHO. Playing scales is good, but I think playing bass it typically more about knowing the intervals and box shapes at each fret position.
So I would recommend you learn the box shapes from at least two different angles. The first angle is you need to know your intervals by ear. Ear training can done with the bass in your hand or not. You need to learn to sing the intervals and also to play the intervals. There should be aa two way linkage. You should be able to hear an interval in your head and also play the interval on our bass. The trick comes in developing the ability to name the interval.
When you sing intervals, you can think of the note names or the interval shapes. I suggest doing both. For example D to E is a perfect second and D up to G is a perfect fourth. Now think about how these interval relationships fit into a fret box. The notes on the fret board form a spatial relationship. D to E can be played on the same string and the notes are two frets apart. D up to G would probably be played on two strings using the same finger, or you could play it on the same string and by moving up 5 frets. If you play with one finger per fret and wanted to play both notes on one string, you would probably play the D with your index finger than shift up 2 frets and play the G with your little finger.
So normally when you think about learning the fretboard you are talking about the ability to point to a fret and a particular string and name the note. Basically you know the notes cold. But I find when I am playing that I often think more in intervals and spatial relationships like I described in the previous paragraph. Learning it multiple ways solidifies you understanding and allows you to move in and out of different types of musical thought processes.
I think a common exercise if you use one finger per fret, is to pick a fret and then work on all of the notes available within the fret box, +/- 1 fret. So basically learn all the notes you can play without shifting, plus all of the notes if you can reach up and down 1 fret.
Rather than using a random approach all the time, I think you will be better of varying your technique. For example, you might pick a fret box and just think about one interval such as a fourth generated off your index finger. Or you might think about the interval of a major third that can be generated between your middle finger and your index finger on adjacent strings.
Think of it both ways. For example A to C# is a major third and if you know where the notes are, you can play them directly. Think about playing the note A using your middle finger on the E string and also play the C# using the index finger on the A string. Note you have made a certain shape or spatial relationship with your fingers that always equals a major third. So you can use this information to reinforce your knowledge of the major thirds. If you move up one fret and place your index finger on Bb, your index finger will be on D...since you know the shape and the notes, you know Bb to D is a Major third.
So this can help in different ways. For example, if you can't remember all of the major thirds, but you know where the notes are on your fret board, you can figure it out because you know the basis shape of a major third on the fret board. Or if you know all of the major thirds, but you get lost on the fret board, you just need to find the root with your middle finger; since you know the shape and the notes, you know the major third will on the next string under your index finger.
If you know your 7th chords and pentatonic scales, try playing the intervals slowly so you can think about the notes you are playing. Do this is all inversions.
Make up your own exercises and try to have some fun with it. Fun will enhance your learning.
I like to play through charts in the Real Book and improvise over changes. Sometimes I really slow down so I can think about every note that I play. I am still working at it, but I can usually play changes and name the notes without looking at the fret board. In fact I am probably better at knowing the notes this way than naming them cold by picking a string and fret position.
Do not be discouraged.
I never took lessons.. I never did the WORK ...I played for about 3 years starting in '77 when I got my fist bass .. and I never ventured above the 7th fret.. and it was cool.. There are so many songs that can be played never going above the 7th fret.. if all you are doing is playing songs.. that can work..
I took a long break after 4 years ... In the 20 years between 1981 and 2001 I think I played maybe two years total if I added up all the little things.. and I did not practice much at all except when I played in a Grateful Dead band for about a year. I started playing again in 2001 after I moved to another state and joined a church that needed a bass player ... and when I started to play again in 2001 initially all I did was learn songs .. At that time I still did not understand why a major was a major.. and a minor a minor .. or how a song that starts in Dm can be in the key of C... Around 2008 I began to realize that I had to do more work.. then I discovered TB and I began to get that "other" input that we all need .. Everything I know today about bass from gear to bassists .. to what I needed to "get" I started that process once I came here .. and started to listen to other players and I will be forever grateful for TB for that .. that is why I renew my membership every year .. but truth be told I am about to do the lifetime thing cause I ain't going no where .. and I REALLY realized that I had a lot of work to do.
I started to do things that I should have done in my first decade of playing bass.. scales.. arpeggios.. finger exercises.. finding out WHY the VI is a minor in a major scale.. and the difference between the minors..
That is what you have to do..
Mind you .. I still cannot do like Ant Wellington said and instantly hit any not every where it exists on my bass.. but I can do it faster than I could last year and I had to realize that there are some things that, due to me being 64 .. 65 in 2020 that I will never be able to do because my fingers just don't do that .. but I am so GRATEFUL that I finally got it .. that you have to do the work.. and I am a better bass player than I was last year this time.. and I am a work in progress... and I am cool with that. Hopefully God willing, the creek don't rise and I am still here I will be a better bass player a year from now than I am today ..
Be a work in progress as a bass player .. and be cool with that.. and know that you have to do the work.. I made some stuff for myself to help me get it .. because I don't learn like most folks so sitting down with a book doesn't work for me.. Consider these things...
1 - SCALES are important... Scales form the alphabet of music and if music is a language.. and you want to converse.. well you have to start with the alphabet..
2 - Chords come from scales .. and arpeggios are chords spoken one note at a time.. Chords are like spoken words.. and arpeggios are like spelled out words..
3 - Modes are best utilized when they are seen as extensions of scales.. Modes help you to understand the structure of the chords within the scales.. and they also help you to get a better visualization of the fret board.. One of the first things I do when I am learning a new song is play all the modes within the scale of that song as the song is playing to hear the way they all fit once I figure out the key ...
4 - Learn scales , arpeggios and modes on 1 string.. 2 strings.. 3 strings 4 strings and 5 strings and if you decide to get a 6 string.. on 6 strings..
PLAY
You have to play ... you have to do the work.. Find songs you like and just play man .. but when you play don't just learn the song.. As you learn the song try it in different positions.. Try to -lay the scale over the song.. and the modes of that scale over the song.. Try to play the melody ... play the horn line..
Dive In .....
Hit some of the links in my sig.. There is enough stuff there to get you started.. and check out some of the kids coming up .. they will blow you a way and inspire you. I made some stuff for myself.. that I will share with you .. I did it just so that I could wrap my head around this thing.. I had to learn that there is no magic.. there is no special instrument or pedal or thing .. You just have to love the instrument and what it does .. respect the process and do the work.. however you can get it done.. Just do it.
Do the work.
Below you will find some of the stuff i did for my own personal growth on bass.. It isn't fancy or polished .. but it helped me .. remember though .. it; is all in the playing. You Tube is your friend .. One night I decided to fiddle around with some of the songs of my youth and I was pleasantly surprised at how fast I picked them up. Strive to be the best YOU that you can be on the instrument ... and play on.
Barry's Bass Stuff
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Re-learn to play songs you already know in the part of the fretboard where your mental gap is. That way if you know a song that’s in say, C major, and you normally play it based around the 3rd fret on the A string, try to play it basing it around the C note at the 8th fret on the E string. Then do it with another song in a different key. This will help you see that it’s the same thing, but over on a new place on the fretboard (and that will help you to start recognizing the notes in the “dark” zone).
I got a fretboard trainer app for my phone and spent time on it whenever I was hanging round doing nothing for a few minutes. It seemed to supplement the physical practise of scales and suchlike pretty well.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.fretboard.game.android&hl=en
(Though for guitar, it's customisable to a degree)
I’ve heard that if you pick a fret not to go past, it helps. You can play something simple, and force yourself to not go below the 7th for example.
Something I did, was to learn where all the open strings are below the 12th fret Find all the E’s for example. Open, 7th fret A, 2nd fret D, etc. then move on to A. Open, 5th Fret E, so on...
So, accomplish this and then once this is all burned in, just know that F is one fret higher than E. B is two frets higher than A. So if you have an A on the 5th fret of the E string, you have a B on the 7th fret of that same E String...
Also something else that helped me
Is knowing what’s right next to something. I know that there is an F right next to the C. The C is on the 3rd fret of the A string and the F is right next to it, 3rd fret of the D string.
That works on the 8th fret of the E. F is right next to it there too. Just on the 8th fret of the A string right next to it.
Last thing - there’s an octave two frets up and two strings over - not sure I’m saying that right, so what I mean is that the A that is 5th fret of the E string has an octave above A, that is on the 7th fret of the D string.
Sorry if this has been a stream of consciousness more than a coherent well organized thought. I sure hope it helps. The way I learned my fret board is just learning the notes and what are around them as I described. There are lots of talented people here and am sure if this isn’t the best approach for you there will be others with good ideas as well best of luck and thank you for your service!
Something I did, was to learn where all the open strings are below the 12th fret Find all the E’s for example. Open, 7th fret A, 2nd fret D, etc. then move on to A. Open, 5th Fret E, so on...
So, accomplish this and then once this is all burned in, just know that F is one fret higher than E. B is two frets higher than A. So if you have an A on the 5th fret of the E string, you have a B on the 7th fret of that same E String...
Also something else that helped me
Is knowing what’s right next to something. I know that there is an F right next to the C. The C is on the 3rd fret of the A string and the F is right next to it, 3rd fret of the D string.
That works on the 8th fret of the E. F is right next to it there too. Just on the 8th fret of the A string right next to it.
Last thing - there’s an octave two frets up and two strings over - not sure I’m saying that right, so what I mean is that the A that is 5th fret of the E string has an octave above A, that is on the 7th fret of the D string.
Sorry if this has been a stream of consciousness more than a coherent well organized thought. I sure hope it helps. The way I learned my fret board is just learning the notes and what are around them as I described. There are lots of talented people here and am sure if this isn’t the best approach for you there will be others with good ideas as well best of luck and thank you for your service!
FRETBOARD LEARN, an app I used on my android smartphone, helped me memorize the bass fretboard. It provided the repetition I needed, is configurable to meet your needs, and I had fun using it.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.fretboard.game.android
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.fretboard.game.android
I am SO GLAD you decided to reach out. I LOVE the advice in this thread.
I've been an ear player all of my 30+ year "career". Bass is my 4th instrument, so I have music knowledge knocking around somewhere in the back of my head. I instinctively knew a mixolydian scale, but never knew it was called that. Then I took intro to Jazz Improv at the local Junior College. I know a lot more now that I did before, BUT I found that for the first few years my creativity was hampered because I was analyzing too much instead of trusting my ear. I'm back to trusting my ear, but I have the knowledge, too.
I'm with you. I don't think memorizing note names is the answer. I feel that memorizing patterns is the key. I just need to find the best way to do that. THANK YOU for the thread. Even though I play hours a day total combined time of 30 mins here, 15 there, , I'm gonna take everyone's advice here and start small, and do 10 minutes at a time not to overload my small brain and get to the point where I know what the notes are instinctively. Then I'll hopefully see the patterns.
I've been an ear player all of my 30+ year "career". Bass is my 4th instrument, so I have music knowledge knocking around somewhere in the back of my head. I instinctively knew a mixolydian scale, but never knew it was called that. Then I took intro to Jazz Improv at the local Junior College. I know a lot more now that I did before, BUT I found that for the first few years my creativity was hampered because I was analyzing too much instead of trusting my ear. I'm back to trusting my ear, but I have the knowledge, too.
I'm with you. I don't think memorizing note names is the answer. I feel that memorizing patterns is the key. I just need to find the best way to do that. THANK YOU for the thread. Even though I play hours a day total combined time of 30 mins here, 15 there, , I'm gonna take everyone's advice here and start small, and do 10 minutes at a time not to overload my small brain and get to the point where I know what the notes are instinctively. Then I'll hopefully see the patterns.
Knowing the note names helps to see, decipher and understand the patterns. For example, knowing when G# is G# (e.g. leading tone in A Major) and not Ab (e.g. mediant in F Minor), or when B is really Cb, or why F is sometimes E#, is the only way to distinguish what would otherwise be identical patterns and shapes on the fingerboard.
I think you're trying to memorize too much at once. Concentrate on a single note at a time, spend a few minutes on it, then move onto another one.
Agree. Luckily, I do know the names of the notes and I'm getting pretty good at pointing to a point on the neck and knowing the note. I am talking more about soloing, I guess. I get caught up in thinking too much and I wish I could just flow more. Patterns seem to be a good "short cut".
BUT like the saying goes, There are no shortcuts. Otherwise, the easy way would just be called the way.
5 string in BEADG => at fifth fret = 5 string in EADGC
at tenth fret = open A => ADGCF
It's just a copy-paste of what you already know.
I practice it by playing simple songs, on one string, two strings, three strings,.... up to five strings...., or not trying to use the same position twice.
at tenth fret = open A => ADGCF
It's just a copy-paste of what you already know.
I practice it by playing simple songs, on one string, two strings, three strings,.... up to five strings...., or not trying to use the same position twice.
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Indeed. I seem to remember knowing where all the rests were on day 1...
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I think it is easiest to think in intervals instead of "memorizing" the fretboard.
Also, practicing all 24 scales is probably helpful.
Also, practicing all 24 scales is probably helpful.
