JeezyMcNuggles
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- Feb 23, 2018
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- I suck, but nobody really notices
Supply and demand. You demand it, they have less supply, they charge you more for it. Business.
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Fretboard woods upcharges
- Thread starter DrStein
- Start date
Be aware also that there is more than one kind and grade of "ebony" - e.g. Gabon ebony, Ceylon ebony, Macassar ebony, etc. Thus pricing can vary.
A good, and less expensive, substitute for any ebony is katalox.
A good, and less expensive, substitute for any ebony is katalox.
I see no one who has worked in a production environment has weighed in, so I will (because I have).
That the upcharge is far more than the wood is due to one thing; you’re asking a builder to step outside their stock box. They have to change what they do, maybe glues, maybe new/different tools. Maybe they also have to go to the hassle of buying something they don’t stock. That causes an amazing amount of disruption in production flow. And that’s why ANY non-standard request to a luthier results in the request costing far more than the price of the material. I guarantee you the builder is not “cashing out” on those deals. They’re never moneymakers.
Also, FWIW, ebony is a bit chippy. As a fretless player I think it’s great, as a builder I always have to be careful with it. It does not forgive careless handling.
That the upcharge is far more than the wood is due to one thing; you’re asking a builder to step outside their stock box. They have to change what they do, maybe glues, maybe new/different tools. Maybe they also have to go to the hassle of buying something they don’t stock. That causes an amazing amount of disruption in production flow. And that’s why ANY non-standard request to a luthier results in the request costing far more than the price of the material. I guarantee you the builder is not “cashing out” on those deals. They’re never moneymakers.
Also, FWIW, ebony is a bit chippy. As a fretless player I think it’s great, as a builder I always have to be careful with it. It does not forgive careless handling.
I got a katalox fretboard on my Maruszczyk bass I ordered last year. I like it a lot. It's attractive, it feels good, it sounds good, and it was an inexpensive option.
Am I, though?
a) Everything is on their catalogue that includes a total of 5 or 6 woods options.
b) They are showing these woods on their facebook page.
Yes, I'd only be willing to pay the $250 upcharge if the builder kept the choices a secret.
Since the upcharge cost is the only issue, go ahead and make an offer. "I won't pay $250 for ebony. But how about $25? Cash!" It always works with the cashiers at the supermarket.
It's not just the cost of a single piece of wood, it's also the cost and associated risk of working it. If the wood is $40 but the extra time to work it over and above the standard adds $40, then the additional cost can't be less than $80. For a low volume requirement you might want to build in a margin for messing it up too and needing to reorder. So that might mean the true cost, including that risk, is $120. So $40 isn't necessarily the right number to look at.
Are the upcharges for features on new cars priced according to their cost to the manufacturer and accurately passed on? Is a different color paint really $1000 more expensive?
Basic economics - if you think it costs too much, don't buy it.
If enough people disagree with you, the cost will go down.
If they don't - the cost is not too high.
Most "boutique" luthiers are not making big bucks. They could almost all earn more working a regular union job using their carpentry or electronics skills.
Least commonly heard sentence in the English language:
"Oh, that's the luthier's Ferrari."
As noted, it's also about risk. Fender guitars were a godsend to the 1950s and 1960s automotive business as he reduced the risk of their paint overstocks by painting guitars in last year's car colours. Fender did, in reality, buy enough for several years of guitars. But it meant that automobile manufacturers didn't have to build as much as a risk margin with respect to paint ordering.
I recently bought an FSR Mustang bass from GC/MF with an ebony fretboard and IIRC it was less than $100 more than the regular Mustang P/J and in addition to the ebony board, it had a list of other features unique to that particular run of instruments.
There are many reasons. It could be because the wood is harder to source. It could be that the wood is harder to work with. It could be because of prestige/popularity and they’ll make more money from it. You are buying from a business after all. No builder is charging cost price for their instruments and if the demand is there then they will for sure charge more for certain things. As someone else has said only you can decide if the builder is good enough to justify their pricing. It doesn’t always have to be “fair”, if it was the case then no one would pay thousands for a Fodera.
+1
As far as unique woods... on basses, check out this thread.
Sustainability is an issue, and if we don't learn, guitars will be a thing from the past. If we could engineer a synthetic fretboard/fingerboard to feel like ebony but made from bamboo that would be great. Mostly because bamboo grows like a weed, and it's hard to get rid of. Those annoying traits make it perfect for a sustainable option.... provided we can get it to work for our purposes.
I wonder how many comments are from luthiers or builders.
From a consumer standpoint, ebony is a beautiful wood. Depending on how black, and how old/seasoned the wood is, I could see paying more for it. I would pay more for it if I had confidence it was ethically sourced even.
If you want a dark black and hard board: you will want to see the board before you use it because not all ebony is the same. If you want another option, engineered materials like richlite are probably the way to go.
Ultimately, makers charge what they do. Prices do not reflect only the cost of the materials. If for example, you wanted a violin made with a maple fingerboard, I wouldn't expect a discount from the base model, and I wouldn't be surprised if they charged more for it.
From a consumer standpoint, ebony is a beautiful wood. Depending on how black, and how old/seasoned the wood is, I could see paying more for it. I would pay more for it if I had confidence it was ethically sourced even.
If you want a dark black and hard board: you will want to see the board before you use it because not all ebony is the same. If you want another option, engineered materials like richlite are probably the way to go.
Ultimately, makers charge what they do. Prices do not reflect only the cost of the materials. If for example, you wanted a violin made with a maple fingerboard, I wouldn't expect a discount from the base model, and I wouldn't be surprised if they charged more for it.
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By that comment I meant more he was evading any issues regarding CITES by using reclaimed wood that might otherwise have been thrown away but to him had great value as well-seasoned wood that also didn't require damaging rain forest. Or he tried to, as my friend kept the original stairs in the end.
In a similar vein, I wanted by grandmother's old coffee table, also mahogany, to see if it could be turned into a guitar or bass in some way. Again, ancient wood not bothering any current rainforests, and a memory from my childhood. It had already been got rid of though
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